Subject: The Beat(en) Generation...
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 03:39:16 -0800
Message-Id: <199801201134.DAA21276@postman.csulb.edu>
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The Beat(en) Generation is a masterpiece, as is the whole craftsmanship of
the Mind Bomb. Let me tell you its story. It is of a man who, having lost
the woman he loved, refused to acknowledge it and move on.
He finds himself late in the evening in the dark of the introspective
night, rationalising what could have been, and reminiscing about the creep
that he was. After some time of soul searching he falls back into his
usual caper of emphasising to himself the joy he wishes to experience, and
moves along to delusionally experiencing the joy that he and his lost love
should be having, singing to convince her that all he wishes is true. He
goes to sleep with the hope that she will feel as he does, return to
embrace him and make love with him once more in ecstactic triumph over her
attempt to deny their love - and his fantasies turn into his nightly
dreams. He hopes the dawn will be a better day, THE day that reality
follows his hope.
But then on waking he finds all as it was and his armageddon days begin
(again). The morning realisation of his own emotional turmoil no longer
turns itself into the fantasy and nice dreams of the night, but leads to
his directing his thoughts to the socio-political turmoil of the world that
he lives in - the conflict, the hatred, the unfairness. After lunch he
recognises to himself the violence of truth, recognises that the truth is
causing him to hurt, that he is focusing on the world at large rather than
on the truth of his own predicament. He accepts the possibility that the
feeling he now clings to is not love but something less earthmoving and
earthshattering (that the fire has died out) and entertains the possibility
that she has gone for good. Entertaining but never actually fully
integrating this fact, (almost but no) he thinks not on the matter for
quite some time afterwards, ending the day feeling quite confident that he
is compotent to move on. He finds himself able to joke about the problems
of the world; no longer are they a big deal now that his inner world is
calmer, his mind refrains from its previous subversive yet predicable
thoughts. After dinner he sits down to Kerouac, even bringing out his
harmonica to play a jumping an jivin' tune. But then.... he finds himself
late in the evening in the dark of the introspective night, rationalising
what could have been, and reminiscing about the creep that he was....
As I play the album in an unending loop on my stereo, so he lives his days
in an unending loop in his head. His mind bombs and looses it healthy
capacity to move forward.
[he laughs and thinks if only you knew me]
Bambang
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color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman">The Beat(en) Generation is a =
masterpiece, as is the whole craftsmanship of the Mind Bomb. Let =
me tell you its story. It is of a man who, having lost the woman =
he loved, refused to acknowledge it and move on.
He finds himself =
late in the evening in the dark of the introspective night, =
rationalising what could have been, and reminiscing about the creep that =
he was. After some time of soul searching he falls back into his =
usual caper of emphasising to himself the joy he wishes to experience, =
and moves along to delusionally experiencing the joy that he and his =
lost love should be having, singing to convince her that all he wishes =
is true. He goes to sleep with the hope that she will feel as he =
does, return to embrace him and make love with him once more in =
ecstactic triumph over her attempt to deny their love - and his =
fantasies turn into his nightly dreams. He hopes the dawn will be =
a better day, THE day that reality follows his hope.
But then on =
waking he finds all as it was and his armageddon days begin (again). =
The morning realisation of his own emotional turmoil no longer =
turns itself into the fantasy and nice dreams of the night, but leads to =
his directing his thoughts to the socio-political turmoil of the world =
that he lives in - the conflict, the hatred, the unfairness. After =
lunch he recognises to himself the violence of truth, recognises that =
the truth is causing him to hurt, that he is focusing on the world at =
large rather than on the truth of his own predicament. He accepts =
the possibility that the feeling he now clings to is not love but =
something less earthmoving and earthshattering (that the fire has died =
out) and entertains the possibility that she has gone for good. =
Entertaining but never actually fully integrating this fact, =
(almost but no) he thinks not on the matter for quite some time =
afterwards, ending the day feeling quite confident that he is compotent =
to move on. He finds himself able to joke about the problems of =
the world; no longer are they a big deal now that his inner world is =
calmer, his mind refrains from its previous subversive yet predicable =
thoughts. After dinner he sits down to Kerouac, even bringing out =
his harmonica to play a jumping an jivin' tune. But then.... he =
finds himself late in the evening in the dark of the introspective =
night, rationalising what could have been, and reminiscing about the =
creep that he was....
As I play the album in an unending loop on =
my stereo, so he lives his days in an unending loop in his head. =
His mind bombs and looses it healthy capacity to move =
forward.
[he laughs and thinks if only you knew =
me]
Bambang
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Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:21:42 -0600 (CST)
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From: Gary.Dean@manor.ch
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: re:The beat(en) generation
Date: 20 Jan 1998 12:20:21 +0000
Message-Id: <0003BE0000000004*@MHS>
Bambang wrote :-
>>> After lunch he recognises to himself the violence of truth...
Q1. What did he have?
Q2. Should the song perhaps be called "The beat(en) egg generation"
Q3. If, after lunch, he recoginised the violence of truth and then
after dinner he sat down to Kerouac. At night was he dreaming
of a fish supper?
Q4. How do I unsubscribe from this list (just like that German chap
who can't do it either - maybe someone should tell him as well).
------------------------------
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From: Lea Curry
To: Gary.Dean@manor.ch
CC: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: The beat(en) generation
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:28:24 -0800
Message-ID: <34C516F8.FCE5E663@sirius.com>
> Q4. How do I unsubscribe from this list (just like that German chap
> who can't do it either - maybe someone should tell him as well).
>
I don't know. I tried when I went on vacation, but it didn't work. We
are doomed, at least until the next album comes out, to wait in this
email purgatory. There is no way out, so might as well enjoy.
Lea
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:37:27 -0600 (CST)
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From: "Poltoranos, Ted"
To: "'Lea Curry'" , Gary.Dean@manor.ch
Cc: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: The beat(en) generation
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:36:48 -0700
Message-ID:
> > Q4. How do I unsubscribe from this list (just like that German chap
> > who can't do it either - maybe someone should tell him as well).
> >
>
>
> I don't know. I tried when I went on vacation, but it didn't work.
> We
> are doomed, at least until the next album comes out, to wait in this
> email purgatory. There is no way out, so might as well enjoy.
>
> Lea
_________________________________________
Is this the 90's version of the 60's adage "no one here gets out alive"?
Maybe Jim Morrison was more prophetic than I gave him credit for ...
Ted
------------------------------
From: Behfar Bastani-Booshehri
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Hotel California
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:04:22 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199801202204.QAA29782@gargoyle164.cs.uchicago.edu>
the respected and revered Ted Poltoranos spake thusly:
> > > Q4. How do I unsubscribe from this list (just like that German chap
> > > who can't do it either - maybe someone should tell him as well).
> > >
> >
> >
> > I don't know. I tried when I went on vacation, but it didn't work.
> > We
> > are doomed, at least until the next album comes out, to wait in this
> > email purgatory. There is no way out, so might as well enjoy.
> >
> > Lea
> _________________________________________
>
> Is this the 90's version of the 60's adage "no one here gets out alive"?
> Maybe Jim Morrison was more prophetic than I gave him credit for ...
>
> Ted
>
fortunately you can check out anytime.. so save this for later.
- -behfar
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------------------------------
Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:25:34 -0600 (CST)
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From: "True Happiness This Way Lies"
To:
Subject: it was dusk with some hanky panky
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:31:42 -0800
Message-Id: <199801201227.EAA27772@postman.csulb.edu>
What MJ said about Dusk. He did not like being called a prophet. He
decided to record an album exploring his own feelings and inner
experiences without any explanation or investigation of what is
happening in the world around him. Rather than risk once more being
hailed as a prophet, rather than his words becoming prophetic visions
after the fact, Matt said he investigated other parts of his inner
life and pursued new and different personal experiences.
And here are a little of mine. I came across theThe at 16. The album
was Infected, and so I was. I think that I have told part of this
story before but repetition does not mean worthlessness. I was
infected by theThe over a time frame of ten days while exploring
Jakarta with a Canadian girl my age. It was during this time too that
I discovered the Smiths (and their skillfully crafted first album).
My Canadian friend bought the album and played it very loud in the van
in which we were driving around the city. Jakarta at night is
wonderful. During the day it is uncomfortably hot and unappealing.
We spent hours in a theme park, eventually hiding within a mirror maze
after the sun set, attempting to scare people. And then racing across
the less than crowded streets with Matt doing his twentieth century
Homeric redenditions to the beat of his own (and as it turned out,
our) drum. After ten days my friend left the country, taking the
cassette with her. Without knowing it though I was infected. And as
the months passed the image of Infected that slowly increased in
vividness and volume was an outspoken, emotion afflicted man who was
screaming at me to listen to him, to understand what he was singing,
to maybe take time to let something that he was experiencing into my
head.
So I did when after a couple of years of longing I purchased Mind Bomb.
The family and friends did not sit down and listen to it with me; so I
already had one of the requirements of complete enjoyment of the CD: I was
alone. I gladly, as Matt suggested, increased the volume to very loud.
Interestingly I began listening to Mind Bomb in the mornings, not long
after arising from slumber. The effect was bizarre to say the least. I
will not describe it, but I know that listening to that album in the
morning still has the same wierd effect on me. I prefer though to do as
instructed and listen at night in the dark.
Lastly though, I did what someone out there suggested and listened to Hanky
Panky while driving a distance on the open road, from SF to Vegas via Reno
in fact. Freaky countryside some of that, but Hanky Panky did the trick.
Fantastic.
Without blushing,
Bambang Peter
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Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:45:50 -0600 (CST)
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From: Gary.Dean@manor.ch
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: apology
Date: 20 Jan 1998 12:44:13 +0000
Message-Id: <0003BE1800000004*@MHS>
Allow me to apologise for the piss take
of Bambangs Beat(en) generation mail.
It was very shitty of me, Mindbomb is my
favourite The The album. Just having a
crap day today that's all.
ciao
Gary
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Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:51:32 -0600 (CST)
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From: DOOOMSAYER
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: last I will say on this...
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:35:11 EST
Message-ID: <56be9a27.34c4d241@aol.com>
"Can you still walk back to happiness, when you've no where else to run?"
What is not to like?
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Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:38:53 -0600 (CST)
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From: DOOOMSAYER
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: the The live
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:38:05 EST
Message-ID: <436354a8.34c4d2ef@aol.com>
Did anyone else on this string see the The at Venus de Milo in Boston
the year they opened for Depech Mode? It was an unannounced show, in
that it was announced about 6 hours before the show. You paid ten
bucks at the door, and you were in. By far the best performance by a
band I have ever seen. Looking for others to comment.
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:15:30 -0600 (CST)
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From: jdrahn@alpha-us.com
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: poetic artifacts
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:19:40 -0800
Message-Id:
> One of the things I am beginning to like more and more, is the
way he re-uses a few poetic artifacts throughout his work. Like "city
of great solitude" and " I was just another Western guy". And
"aching/burning/selfish- little mind"
Are you saying these are references to pieces of literature, or
that he reuses them throughout his songs, or both? If they're
literary references, what are they from?
Axlotl
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Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 05:44:13 -0600 (CST)
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From: "True Happiness This Way Lies"
To:
Subject: Re: poetic artifacts
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:50:12 -0800
Message-Id: <199801211145.DAA08971@postman.csulb.edu>
Lea continues to shine - her ability to communicate her ideas so very
well and her references to other musicians, past and still hanging on
in there, is superb. I am not old but I view MJ as a poet who words
his experiences in such a way that I can know that I am alive when
listening to him. And I do listen to Cohen and Dylan, rejoice in
their poetry and their charisma. Maybe that's the word that fits all
this: CHARISMA. Morrisey could only sing about it, while the majority
can only strive to blind us to their lack of charisma by assaulting
our senses and our minds with sanitised lyrics and pathetic attempts
at attention-grabbing. Marr has it, although the man is seen through
his guitar, and the music he composes. Morrisey lost any claim to
charisma when Marr went the other direction. And (not wishing to
begin a feud) even "Satan rejected his soul" it is so uncharismatic.
But I won't harp on him any longer (I'll let Rollins do that). MJ has
that charisma that comes through - and I ask that those out there in
Infected land reconsider The Beat(en) Generation; some called it
pop... well hey (grinning at Lea) he did match the words to the song,
he did use the harmonica, his lyrics were conceptually challenging,
and he lived it down (if that's what he wanted to do). Charismatic
that song is, more so than others, and it is theThe, irrepairably
theThe. MJ I believe has his moments of boppiness, when the problems
of the world and the problems of his life aren't all that important.
TBG is just that: serious issues that just dropped down the list of
what's important, a time when he just felt like bopping about, playing
his harmonica, and perhaps he was just too dawn insightful to write
senseless lyrics..... But getting back to Charisma. Maybe that's the
word which fits all this what we are pondering and enjoying.
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:00:58 -0600 (CST)
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From: Lea Curry
To: jdrahn@alpha-us.com
CC: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: poetic artifacts
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:02:31 -0800
Message-ID: <34C56547.F521889F@sirius.com>
jdrahn@alpha-us.com wrote:
>
> > One of the things I am beginning to like more and more, is the way he
> re-uses a few poetic artifacts throughout his work. Like "city of great
> solitude" and " I was just another Western guy". And
> "aching/burning/selfish- little mind"
>
> Are you saying these are references to pieces of literature, or that he re-
> uses them throughout his songs, or both? If they're literary references, what
> are they from?
>
No, I mean they are of his own invention, but he seems to sort of have
a theme, that runs throughout his work.
"When he says "I am just a western guy..." it might echoe back to
another song or album, and , well, they tie in, in this way. That's the
best I can do to explain it. Not very good! Sorry! But I am seeing
these sort of srtifacts that he uses in different ways, and they make
his work sort of cohesive. I tend to view his stuff more like a "body of
work" then just as seperate albums.
And I suppose I tend to view him as a poet in the tradition of Dylan
and Cohen, more than a pop star.
I am too old, you see!
Lea
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Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:55:24 -0600 (CST)
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From: k333@ix.netcom.com
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: grooviest matt tune
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:54:23 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <1998120205335341@>
Euthelene aka Kayleigh here...
gravitate to me
infected
helpline operator
jealous of youth
mmmm, what else. not much more at this time.
why you ask, i could hear eager voices just wondering.
these lyrics relate speifically to life happenings or feelings or wonderings or
just those darn pesky events in life that everyone says "you'll be stronger for
this, just wait and see"
phtahhh, phoey on that. sometimes i think people have enough character and any
more character building events would surely overfill that infamous glass.
k
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Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:33:17 -0600 (CST)
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From: "formerly: luster@gnn.com"
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: TBG
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:32:47 -0500
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980121083202.0069d188@mail.one.net>
The Beaten Generation is jingly-jangly pop music (MARR!) with intelligent
lyrics.
It was MEANT to be that way (in my opinion) to show that you can have "FUN"
music
while keeping some sense of intelligent, poignant, commentary within the
lyric base.
Regardless, it is a the The song. Thus, I still like it.
Besides that, I've noticed that a lot of the people that hate it (and
mister, you know who
you are) live out east. That's reason enough for me to like it. ;)
JaY!
*****************************************
JaY!: 1
Morrissey: 0
"...more than you'll...ever...know"
*****************************************
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:32:04 -0600 (CST)
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From: Lea Curry
To: "formerly: luster@gnn.com"
CC: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: TBG
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:32:59 -0800
Message-ID: <34C63F5B.B10E2EDE@sirius.com>
UH UH, I live as far west as you can get and still be in the
US...well almost. And the problem is, I dont think that jingle jangle
IS fun. It annoys me!
A grump out west!
Lea
But I do know what you mean, that it was intentional. I hope it was as
cynical as you say.
formerly: luster@gnn.com wrote:
>
> The Beaten Generation is jingly-jangly pop music (MARR!) with intelligent
> lyrics.
>
> It was MEANT to be that way (in my opinion) to show that you can have "FUN"
> music
> while keeping some sense of intelligent, poignant, commentary within the
> lyric base.
>
> Regardless, it is a the The song. Thus, I still like it.
>
> Besides that, I've noticed that a lot of the people that hate it (and
> mister, you know who
> you are) live out east. That's reason enough for me to like it. ;)
> JaY!
> *****************************************
> JaY!: 1
> Morrissey: 0
> "...more than you'll...ever...know"
> *****************************************
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:26:18 -0600 (CST)
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From: JWH
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: First the The experience
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:22:21 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID:
O.K. Since everyone's sharing, here goes- something personal and
well-written (I hope), if you don't want to read it, just hit delete, but
dont' even think about ridicule- Matt Johnson's personal experiences went
into his music and this story is how I it relates to me.
And so we begin...
Fall 95, Freshman year U of A. Already lived away from home for two
years, so going across country to school wasn't a big deal; it was the
falling in love part that messed everything up.
Met a girl unlike any I had previously known. She was not particularly
tall, thin or striking- She did have a air that captured me and eyes that
I fell into and caused me to lose track of myself. All the details
in the world don't do the situation justice though, once you know that
sensation, you don't forget it and you don't
need it described. I had fallen in love hard, for the first time- and
perhaps the freedom I felt was the greatest feeling I'll ever have, it
expanded my conciousness of others and the world around me. I changed
forever.
Enter stupidity. My naivite, my innocense in the ways of women, my
inability to see the big picture ultimately destroyed this union. I had
waited my entire life (18 years up to that point), to let myself go, to
let anyone in at all. The passion I felt helped me to understand, maybe
just a little, God- in a way. I was not an outwardly religious person,
but I had learned passion, or at least I had come to know of its
existence and appreciate it.
I was enamored such that I lost track of everything outside of us- a
mistake, that combined with her experience and my lack of it, put friction
on me the likes of which I've never known since. Just as in "Chasing
Amy", my insecurities about myself destroyed the love that she had for me.
In not knowing how to love her, I drove her away.
In spent the next year and a half trying to figure out what the hell had
happened, what I had done wrong, what could have been done or said
differently, what deal I could make with the devil in order to take it all
back and share love with her again rather than having learned the hard way
and losing the greatest love of my life.
I then heard "Lung Shadows". Every emotion of loss that I had been
feeling was surmised in that song. Most fans will tell you that it's
about a man and woman together, but I know that it's about a man and woman
apart. The rest of Dusk too, also seemed to put the emotions that I was
feeling into song- not in a playful way either- in that dark, moody
silence you get, late at night when you're the only one up in the whole
world and he city is breathing in the background and it's you and your
memories and the music.
The rest is history, right down to breaking up with later girlfriends and
listening to Hanky Panky and feeling good about things. Don't
misunderstand, life isn't all rainy skies and melancholy thoughts moodily
swashing about in your head. Life is good too.
There you have it, a small piece of my life, whether you relate or find it
a waste of disk space on your email server. I sent it, which should tell
you something considering the subjuct matter; listen to the The and enjoy
it. Matt Johnson took the timne to express himeslf- and in a creative
matter, everyone has the potential to not learn, but relate to it. The
human experience is caputered so well in this music, no wonder you're on
this list!
- -JWH
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:56:54 -0600 (CST)
Resent-Message-ID: <"eJN-XD.A.U5D.yLlx0"@purpletape>
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From: jdrahn@alpha-us.com
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:00:53 -0800
Message-Id:
Message is sent with MIME. Attachments are base64 encoded
- --TFS-with-MIME-and-DIME
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
JWH shared this with moving anecdote with us...
O.K. Since everyone's sharing, here goes- something personal and
well-written (I hope), if you don't want to read it, just hit delete, but
dont' even think about ridicule- Matt Johnson's personal experiences went
into his music and this story is how I it relates to me.
There you have it, a small piece of my life, whether you relate or find it
a waste of disk space on your email server. I sent it, which should tell
you something considering the subjuct matter; listen to the The and enjoy
it. Matt Johnson took the timne to express himeslf- and in a creative
matter, everyone has the potential to not learn, but relate to it. The
human experience is caputered so well in this music, no wonder you're on
this list!
...and has inspired me to reveal something about myself that I usually
find hard to do on mailing lists, or anywhere, for that matter. I'm a
Christian. Raised in a conservative family, but somewhere along the
way decided that form of worshipping God was not for me, and have
since liberalized my religion into something more personal, a religion
that is still evolving.
Anyway, I was wondering how many people on this list, that would care to
comment, believe in God, and how many believe in Jesus as God's son.
Since Matt J often deals with these issues, I don't think this is
inappropriate.
Thanks for being a group of people who (although anonymous) make me feel
comfortable enough to talk about this subject which I've always found
hard to integrate with my interest in music that my family has never
approved of...
Axlotl
------------------------------
From: "terri hannigan"
To:
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:34:56 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <003101bd26ce$e3ce2ba0$76992399@xpowjjkf>
Hi- Have been lurking........reading.enjoying. Such a great group of ppl on
this list, such a variance of personalities.
Thought I'd add my two cents...I agree with Chris on "different opinions" &
"slagging" matt. Like most everything in life, how we feel about most things
comes down to how it makes us feel. What images & feelings it arouses in
us... which is as individualistic as we are....
Concerning God>> I agree with the person who stated that organized religion
is not for them. Although raised with 10 years of Catholic schooling I also
reject "organized" religion. My standard beliefs tend to be those I know
best though, Catholicism.
I do believe wholeheartedly in the spirituality & goodness of God, and
strive to teach my children about God in my own way. I have often wished
though for a spiritual community to help me convey the importance of God's
goodness to them. Have yet to find one...so I teach them about kindness,
compassion, love & understanding..and hope they understand God through
this.. { In my humble opinion though all religions do seem to have one thing
in common, they all find SOMEONE or SOMETHING to judge}
Terri
"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture"
Elvis Costello
From: Chris Norton
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
>>Anyway, I was wondering how many people on this list, that would care
>to
>>comment, believe in God, and how many believe in Jesus as God's son=2E
>Sin=
>>ce Matt
>>J often deals with these issues, I don't think this is inappropriate=2E
>
>Without wanting to hijack Axolotl's proposed thread:
>
>I've found Matt's lyrics to take an interesting stance on God/religion
>etc ...
>
>I once read an interview where I think he said something to the effect
>of "I believe in God, but I don't believe in religion". This goes some
>way to explaining the paradoxical lyrics of 'Violence of Truth' and the
>attitude in 'Armageddon Days...'.
>
>What he seems to be saying is that religion-as-a-concept (eg belief in a
>supreme deity/power) is something for people's personal evaluation.
>People have to make their own choices about their beliefs, and should
>not force them upon others - for it's holy wars and other attempts
>(however well-intentioned) to convert those who don't believe in you
>that constitute the "violence of truth". Religion-as-often-practiced
>often ends up offending its own ideals, as people violate the principles
>it espouses in their zeal to bring the truth to others.
>
>He also seems somewhat mystified by the fervence of Islamic supporters
>and the strength of a faith that drives people to fight and die for
>their religious beliefs, as opposed to what he sees as the uncertainty
>of many Western Christians (and, one surmises from his general lyric
>matter, himself) about their faith - cf. "Sweet Bird of Truth".
>
>I'm not religious myself, but (dare I say it?) as this seems to be a
>more intellectual list than many, it might be interesting to know how
>many "mainstream" Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. react to Matt's ideas
>on religion. Is this a worthwhile thread?
>
>Cheers,
>Chris
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:33:04 -0600 (CST)
Resent-Message-ID: <"2Nx10.A.ujE.7Gqx0"@purpletape>
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From: Vonn Campbell
To: "THE THE (E-mail)"
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:31:34 -0500
Message-ID: <01BD26AB.A39D4CA0@39.middletown-17.va.dial-access.att.net>
>>>Ktcoach wrote :
>>>"If Jesus Christ were alive today, he be gunned down cold by the
>>>CIA." How true.
This is very true in my opinion. The government would not rest until
Jesus was removed from existence. They can't have that power
coexisting with their own form of control.
Also I am not a Marx fan, but I think it was he that said, "Religion
is the opiate of the people."
Truth exists there indeed. What better way for a government to
maintain control over a large population than allowing them to worship
and believe as they wish. That population will for the most part
remain calm and orderly as long as their method of religious worship
is not in jeopardy.
Just my opinion.
Ne Obliviscaris,
Vonn "Devo" Campbell ---> mailto:Vonn.Campbell@worldnet.att.net
"I threw in my money and made my wish, but sleeping boys catch no fish." ...Matt Johnson
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not!" ...Unknown
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:53:39 -0600 (CST)
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From: Vonn Campbell
To: "THE THE (E-mail)"
Subject: RE: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:51:22 -0500
Message-ID: <01BD26AE.7531B9C0@39.middletown-17.va.dial-access.att.net>
"God will remind us of what we already know, that the human race is
about to reap what its sown"
My story is similar. Growing up I was never expected to attend
church, but could if I wanted. Usually chose to sleep late. As the
years of school went by, I chose an extreme scientific point of view
as to why things exist. I was also exposed to those hypocrites who
were out drinking with me on Saturday night and pointing their
hung-over finger at me on Sunday for not attending church on a regular
basis. This is one thing that turned me away from religion as a
whole.
I met my wife-to-be in 1993. She was and still remains a very
religious person. Church every Sunday, Choir every Sunday, Practice
every Wednesday, reading her Bible most nights, and praying for
people that ask for prayer. We were complete opposites in the arena
of religion, but we never argued over the subject. Discussed many
things from the Bible, but never in a heated argument.
She has never pushed religion on me or faulted me for my lack of
attendance in church. But, within the last year, I have chosen to
accept a superior being existing in some form. My father was
diagnosed with cancer and told his chances of survival were not good.
All the people of my wife's church prayed for my father's well being
and since his treatments ended after 7 months, he has been in
remission for almost two years.
I am not saying this is the work of God, but I no longer discount the
possibility.
Anyway, I too see myself as spiritual not religious. I think Matt
believes in some superior being, some controller, some overseer, some
watcher. Maybe we are all just one big experiment.
Sorry to ramble on like that,
Vonn "Devo"
- -----Original Message-----
From: Simone McCleary
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 5:25 PM
To: Ktcoach; infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Religion/God...
Growing up I was an atheist -- through and through. Parents were
Buddhist, but decided that wasn't what THEY believed. I grew to
accept that there was NO God. Later on, I got married and had a
child. Something about giving birth to something that is a part of
you and someone you deeply love...
well, long story short, I began to reconsider my thoughts on Religion
and God. I have a problem with thinking that there isn't something
higher out there somewhere. I'd like to think I'm more spiritual than
anything else. If you were to label me right now, I guess you could
say I'm agnostic.
my 2 cents...
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:26:40 -0600 (CST)
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From: "Tracey Huntingford"
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:24:39 -0800
Message-Id: <199801220325.TAA25176@lithium.dowco.com>
I'm an atheist through and through. I'd sure like to believe in a
God, it would make life safer, but I don't...although, I do like the
saying: "There are no atheists on the battleground". I can see the
truthfulness of this in myself. Because of my socialization, whenever
something really horrible happens, I find myself making deals with
'God'. (:
I have been a fan of The The since Soul Mining came out. I used to
bomb around on my motorcycle with the tape blaring into my helmet
through my walkman. Neither rain, nor snow, nor sleet mattered, as
long as I could sing my heart out to MJ.
I have seen them (him) in concert 3 times. The two times I saw them
(him) on their (his) own terms were the better concerts. The last
time was when they (he) backed up Depeche Mode, and the larger venue
really detracted from the experience.
I find myself often quoting lines from MJ's lyrics. They seem to fit
so many circumstances. Of course, it's a solitary entertainment since
no one else knows what I'm quoting. I don't mean to do it, they just
pop into my head, probably cuz I know them soooo well. A (sick?) part
of me has always felt that he (MJ) was mine, and mine alone. This is
an easy thing to believe, since no one ever knows who he is. It
certainly feels strange to hear (read) you all talking about the
music.
My least favorite album is Hanky Panky...but I still love it...I
kinda wish you all would stop talking about Beat(en) Generation,
since it's now been reverberating over and over in my head since the
subject came up. I do, however, like the song, and I believe it is
important that the music is sing songy. It backs up the content of
the lyrics.
Regards,
Tracey Huntingford
Web Developer
mailto:traceyh@highwired.com
___________________________________________________
H i g h W i r e d
Web Design and CGI Programming Experts
http://www.highwired.com/
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:57:52 -0600 (CST)
Resent-Message-ID: <"Z_KwkC.A.MGE.M9mx0"@purpletape>
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From: "Chris Norton"
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:56:50 EST
Message-ID: <19980121215651.4045.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Anyway, I was wondering how many people on this list, that would care
to
>comment, believe in God, and how many believe in Jesus as God's son=2E
Sin=
>ce Matt
>J often deals with these issues, I don't think this is inappropriate=2E
Without wanting to hijack Axolotl's proposed thread:
I've found Matt's lyrics to take an interesting stance on God/religion
etc ...
I once read an interview where I think he said something to the effect
of "I believe in God, but I don't believe in religion". This goes some
way to explaining the paradoxical lyrics of 'Violence of Truth' and the
attitude in 'Armageddon Days...'.
What he seems to be saying is that religion-as-a-concept (eg belief in a
supreme deity/power) is something for people's personal evaluation.
People have to make their own choices about their beliefs, and should
not force them upon others - for it's holy wars and other attempts
(however well-intentioned) to convert those who don't believe in you
that constitute the "violence of truth". Religion-as-often-practiced
often ends up offending its own ideals, as people violate the principles
it espouses in their zeal to bring the truth to others.
He also seems somewhat mystified by the fervence of Islamic supporters
and the strength of a faith that drives people to fight and die for
their religious beliefs, as opposed to what he sees as the uncertainty
of many Western Christians (and, one surmises from his general lyric
matter, himself) about their faith - cf. "Sweet Bird of Truth".
I'm not religious myself, but (dare I say it?) as this seems to be a
more intellectual list than many, it might be interesting to know how
many "mainstream" Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. react to Matt's ideas
on religion. Is this a worthwhile thread?
Cheers,
Chris
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:05:41 -0600 (CST)
Resent-Message-ID: <"_44buB.A.uJE.hEnx0"@purpletape>
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From: Simone McCleary
To: "Chris Norton" ,
infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:12:51 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199801212212.QAA14510@crude.edge.net>
I heard once from a friend of mine -- we both went to a theThe show together
in 1993... that MJ was a Taoist. Any truth to this?
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:17:18 -0600 (CST)
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From: Simone McCleary
To: Ktcoach , infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:24:42 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199801212224.QAA16492@crude.edge.net>
Religion/God...
Growing up I was an atheist -- through and through. Parents were Buddhist,
but decided that wasn't what THEY believed. I grew to accept that there was
NO God. Later on, I got married and had a child. Something about giving
birth to something that is a part of you and someone you deeply love...
well, long story short, I began to reconsider my thoughts on Religion and
God. I have a problem with thinking that there isn't something higher out
there somewhere. I'd like to think I'm more spiritual than anything else.
If you were to label me right now, I guess you could say I'm agnostic.
my 2 cents...
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:55:17 -0600 (CST)
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From: Cheryl
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:53:56 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <19980122015356.13593.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
I don't know about "mainstream," but I've always felt close to some
sort of deity, especially when I was a little girl. Certainly not
religious anymore...more spiritual than anything. It's an internal
thing. I hate to label this with any particular religion at all...
Apparently MJ does too.
Cheryl
==
Satellite, oh satelitte.
Who sits upon our skies.
How deep do you see when you spy into our lives...?
- --the The
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:11:40 -0600 (CST)
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From: Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM (Adrian Stubbs)
To: Ktcoach , infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:10:39 -0800
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980121151039.006d6020@sc-mail1.corpwest.baynetworks.com>
OK.
I believe in something, I don't know what. All I know is that
evolution doesn't seem to do it for me.
I see a lot of bad things in religion but I can't say I don't believe
it's a good thing. A lot of societies have been held together for the
good by religion. Sure it may have been manipulation but the result
was good. I see a lot of Bad too so don't give me a list of
oppressive religions and nutty priests please.
A contrasting point may be that how can someone who totally beleives
in a particular God not want to let other people know about it. I had
a friend who had a 'life changing' spiritual experience at college (no
drugs involved). He became a devout B.A.C. and wanted everybody to
know about it. He was a lot happier than he had been and wanted us to
experience that. I was grateful that he thought enough of me to want
to share it with me. I wasn't interested and am still not but I see
nothing wrong with being part of a religion with all it's ceremonies
and traditions (and dogma).
- -Adrian
At 04:58 PM 1/21/98 EST, Ktcoach wrote:
>
>
> I believe in God. I don't believe in organized religion. Organized
> religion is a means for a minority to control the majority. And if
> it doesn't work for you, start you own.
>
>
> This is definitely a "cautious" are to explore as everyone will have
> an opion about Religion and God, but theThe does an excellent job at
> making us think about.
>
>"If Jesus Christ were alive today, he be gunned down cold by the
> CIA." How true.
>
>Ktcoach
>
>
0000,0000,8080
_________________________________________
Adrian Stubbs
Consultant, Channel Capture System
Bay Networks Inc.
(408) 495 1976
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:07:24 -0600 (CST)
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From: Ktcoach
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: soul mining, God
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:58:52 EST
Message-ID:
I believe in God. I don't believe in organized religion. Organized religion
is a means for a minority to control the majority. And if it doesn't work for
you, start you own.
This is definitely a "cautious" are to explore as everyone will have an opion
about Religion and God, but theThe does an excellent job at making us think
about.
"If Jesus Christ were alive today, he be gunned down cold by the CIA." How
true.
Ktcoach
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:07:29 -0600 (CST)
Resent-Message-ID: <"sfj1_C.A.UWE.d-nx0"@purpletape>
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From: DOOOMSAYER
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: the The
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:53:14 EST
Message-ID: <650aa15f.34c67c5c@aol.com>
What about main stream atheists?
It is interesteing to ponder Mr. Johnson's take on religion from a
perspective that denies the existance of any god. I have never taken
Mr. Johnson's words regarding religion or god as anything other than
commentary. I have often wondered if that was his attempt or not. As
personal as Mr. Johnson is, I have always suspected he injects enough
contradiction into his lyrics to keep us guessing on his personal take
on god/religion.
TM Day
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:22:52 -0600 (CST)
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From: "Chris Norton"
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Least faves & slagging Matt
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:21:53 EST
Message-ID: <19980121212154.6129.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Not a great topic.
>
>... and then I read a slagging of Slow Train To Dawn. I feel an
instant
>dislike of the author.
...
>Then I realize that this is merely an opinion, and I too feel that
there
>are a few the The songs that just don't do it for me like the others
do.
...
I just don't feel comfortable
>slagging the The, or seeing others do it.
>
>But that's just my opinion.
I agree with Lea...
Let's get one thing clear from the start; music all really comes down to
OPINION and PERSONAL TASTE.
Matt is the ARTIST and we are the AUDIENCE. As with any work of art,
Matt may try to provoke a particular response from his listeners
(whether it be of an artistic Matty kind like "understand what I'm
feeling" or a commercial Spice Girlsy kind like "buy this record NOW and
make me RICH!") but can't force the audience to respond in a particular
way. Everyone brings to an artwork their own personality, tastes,
background and other personal baggage.
Over the last few days we've seen a number of postings on why people
like the The. Many of them indicate that Matt struck a particular chord
with which they could identify, often because of a life experience
they'd just had. What this shows is that no two people approach the
music in the same way - and so it's understandable that people have
different reactions.
I think 'least faves' is just as interesting as 'most faves'. It can be
just as revealing about a person's personality and character. I think
it says a lot more about the individual than about the track. This
means that when Adrian says "I don't like Slow Train", or I say "I don't
like Beat(en) Generation", we're not slagging the The (I think Adrian's
original posting made that quite clear). We're saying "This song just
didn't do it for me in the way that others did." (As Ted realises...)
If we all keep this in mind, I think we can learn a lot from
Me - I like Slow Train. Even though it's about the paradoxes involved
in a relationship under pressure (brought out very well in the video,
one of my all-time faves - notice the black and white? And how Matt and
Neneh are never shown together, even when just metres apart facing each
other in the maintenance pit?) I also personally respond to it as
inspiration for overcoming adversity, and it often plays over and over
in my head when I'm engaged in some long strenuous activity like
climbing a mountain. Something very different from what Matt probably
intended, but a purely personal response.
And why don't I like Beat(en) Generation?
For the same reason as Lea - it's a stupid singsongy commercial sellout
and I think it really sucks. ;-)
Psychoanalyse that!
Cheers,
Chris
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:59:51 -0600 (CST)
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From: "Erin Osborne"
To:
Subject: religion
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:57:02 -0500
Message-ID: <19980122155854.AAA18401@default>
So, may I ask of all of you that are religious, have you always been or did
it come to you later in life? I myself, at 21 years of age, am not
especially devout to any type of religion, but I am not discounting the
possibility of it happening later. If you found your religion later in life
I ask how and why?
endlessly seeking...
erin
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:20:48 -0600 (CST)
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From: "Kyle Milligan"
To: "Erin Osborne"
Cc: "Infected"
Subject: Re: religion
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:10:19 -0800
Message-Id: <199801230011.TAA05865@toronto.planeteer.com>
While I haven't given up on the idea of "God" or something similar, I've
long since given up on religon.
Born and raised a protestant, I have little patience for the concept of
"blind faith".
I have less patience for the hypocrisy that is Catholicism.
When you stop to think about it, all religon (including the Bible) is
created by man, and therefore flawed, and most likely fashioned to suit
ulterior motives.
I can't comment too much on other religons, knowing little about them. But
the Christianity angle seems a bit bent.
Proverbs isn't a bad book though. Be good to thy neighbour. Do unto
others...
Kyle
- ----------
> From: Erin Osborne
> To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
> Subject: religion
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 7:57 AM
>
> So, may I ask of all of you that are religious, have you always been or
did
> it come to you later in life? I myself, at 21 years of age, am not
> especially devout to any type of religion, but I am not discounting the
> possibility of it happening later. If you found your religion later in
life
> I ask how and why?
> endlessly seeking...
> erin
>
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Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:52:55 -0600 (CST)
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From: Lea Curry
To: Erin Osborne
CC: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: religion
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:54:34 -0800
Message-ID: <34CA38EA.81DFDDB2@sirius.com>
> So, may I ask of all of you that are religious, have you always been or did
> it come to you later in life? I myself, at 21 years of age, am not
> especially devout to any type of religion, but I am not discounting the
> possibility of it happening later. If you found your religion later in life
> I ask how and why?
> endlessly seeking...
> erin
>
>
Ahem, well, although I do not discuss the PARTICULARS of religion,
(bad idea, just leads to fights, it seems, but do go on), as possibly
one of the GREYER heads, (41) I can throw in the following:
Some people get more religious and some people get more spiritual and
the two are not always the same. Hopefully they are RELATED.
Finally, some people just get more dogmatic and stuck. They see their
options running out (aging) and they want to tie everything up in a neat
little bow. So they look for EASY answers. Fundamentalism. Scientology
ads are now advertising "the answer to it all". I suspect that would
appeal to some going through midlife crisis, and of course it is that
monied age group they want.
If you can age and still keep your mind open, (even though all of that
formal education and those who rule the working class want DESPERATELY
to close it down), and you observe life for a few decades, I think you
maybe get more spiritual. You see that maybe SOMETHING watches over
you. Youv'e gotten yourself into enough jams that you SHOULDN'T have
been able to get out of, but miraculously did. And you sniff around and
you think "something's UP" "Something is jinxy round here. All of
this sychronicity cant just be random", etc.
The other thing is that IF you have taken the time to sew the seeds of
LOVE around you, and you have treated people around you like you want to
be treated, you might look around and see that you have a good life as a
result. You get to eat some of the "fruit". And you see, aha......
"something jinxy round here, and it's GOOD"! ( realizing it is a GOOD
thing is some kind of a level, I think- that makes you a lot more secure
about the world).
The thing that it takes a while to see, is that the good stuff that
happens isn't directly associated with anything you did, and it happens
a little too often to be RANDOM. So you start to SENSE something behind
it. And that something gets more fanmiliar and you sort of "know" it.
You "walk with it". The more you think about it and act based on
knowing it is present, the more stuff sychronizes.
I call that getting more spiritual. Others might see it as developing
"character, where character is defined as 'what you do when no one is
looking". Some just call it "getting centered".
But an awful lot of people don't EVER get there. If you observe what
happens and you try to do "good" things, you get there. The FAITH is
trusting that there WILL be a payoff, and doing the right thing , even
if you dont want to, based on that faith. After a couple decades , you
start to SEE it. But you NEED to be old enough to look back that far to
really SEE where your life has been. Its really hard in the 20's
because you dont have any adult history. Thats why they tell you to
"have faith". This stuff is a growth thing and it doesnt happen all at
once , lessen your the Bhudda Head!
Lea
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Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:18:06 -0600 (CST)
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From: "Poltoranos, Ted"
To: "'Ktcoach'" , infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: religion
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:17:21 -0700
Message-ID:
I agree with the conclusion that Matt is exploring religion in some of
those Mind Bomb songs. I don't think he's presenting his views at all.
Instead, he is presenting many of the commonly held views prevalent
throughout the world's religions, and in true Matt style, presenting
those views in a way that demonstrates inconsistencies and
contradictions. This forces us, the listener, to re-examine these
views, and come up with our own conclusions. That's what it does for
me. I'm not sure I've come up with any answers, but I am a lot clearer
on what the questions should be, and what's important to me versus what
isn't.
And, in a lot of ways, all of Matt's songs have a similar style. Even
when they appear to be relating a particular situation or emotion
experienced by the writer, they are presented in a way that makes you
think "how does this relate to my personal experience". I'm not sure if
its done on purpose, or how its done, but I think its why we keep
hearing about how his songs touch so many different people in very
personal ways. And its probably what sets him apart as a brilliant song
writer.
Ted
{My personal favourite religious lines ...
Who is it
Whose words have been twisted beyond recognition
In order to form your planet earth's religions?
> -----Original Message-----
> <>
>
> I believe the religion is always there. It is put there by others,
> whether it
> be your parents or schooling or the church. Most of us doubt it or
> defy it.
> Some of us actually rediscover it. Some of us stay with it.
>
> Most of this list seems to have it in some form or another. It
> doesn't appear
> to be the "mainstream" concept we are forever shown in Media, but in a
> unique
> and more personal manor. I've seen where somone said, "a higher
> power", or
> the actual belief in God, but it all appears to be a form of
> "religion."
>
> "Armageddon days are here, (again)." from Mind Bomb Is a wonderful
> example
> of the exploration of religion. It makes you think about what we've
> been
> told was "right" by ministers, preachers, etc. maybe it isn't right
> afterall.
> It doesn't say what is right or wrong, but it makes us think and the
> thinking
> allows us to decide what we want to believe in.
>
> Alas, the list is alive and well, but we may have to form an entire
> new list
> if we continue the religion dicussion!
>
> *God is evil, God is Love!
> God is the force that possesses us!
> God is beauty! God is Truth!
> God is the force that, is watching over you!
> *The violence of Truth*
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:46:45 -0600 (CST)
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From: Ktcoach
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: religion
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:42:26 EST
Message-ID:
<>
I believe the religion is always there. It is put there by others, whether it
be your parents or schooling or the church. Most of us doubt it or defy it.
Some of us actually rediscover it. Some of us stay with it.
Most of this list seems to have it in some form or another. It doesn't appear
to be the "mainstream" concept we are forever shown in Media, but in a unique
and more personal manor. I've seen where somone said, "a higher power", or
the actual belief in God, but it all appears to be a form of "religion."
"Armageddon days are here, (again)." from Mind Bomb Is a wonderful example
of the exploration of religion. It makes you think about what we've been
told was "right" by ministers, preachers, etc. maybe it isn't right afterall.
It doesn't say what is right or wrong, but it makes us think and the thinking
allows us to decide what we want to believe in.
Alas, the list is alive and well, but we may have to form an entire new list
if we continue the religion dicussion!
*God is evil, God is Love!
God is the force that possesses us!
God is beauty! God is Truth!
God is the force that, is watching over you!
*The violence of Truth*
------------------------------
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Peter_Kj=E6r?=
To: "'Infected!!'"
Subject: It's alive!!!!
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:35:09 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <01BD276D.91AB8EE0@ppp48.web.dk>
Hi all!
As I'm only checking my mail once or twice aweek,I thought that one or two
mails from this list was average...Today there were "80"...GREAT!!
I'll try to send my humble opinion to some of the threeds,but overall I must
say that I was SO PLEASED to see that I'm not the only "the The"-fan out-
there....And what great opinions you all have!!
My first experience with the The was Infected around -87.I bought the album unheard 'cos I liked the sleeve-art.Took it home and LOVED it! Then I saw a
concert on the "Mindbomb"-tour in Copenhagen and was SOLD!
I think that Infected is the most "powerful" album (Musically) and Mindbomb
has the best lyrics...But Dusk has been "growing" on me lately...(Thanks to
some pointers from this group!)..
IMHO "TBG" is a great song....It just dosn't fit in on the album....And as
someone wrote, I too feel a bond between "tbg" and "Heartland"....
"Slow train.." IS a great song and the video is STUNNING!!!
Religion is allways a part of the The...Almost in every song!!!
I think that "God lives in everybodies soul, and the only devil in this
world..lives in the human soul.." covers it all. I think "Zen" when I hear
this, but only in "labelling", not in practise...And maybe that is Zen too!!
Comments are welcome!!
Peter K.
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:31:31 -0600 (CST)
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From: JWH
To: Infected
Subject: Oh NO!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:27:33 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID:
Sob story here:
My copy of Soul Mining (UK +6, of course!) was sitting on the couch where
it had fallen out of my bag last night and my flatmate (ex-friend), who
always flops himself down on the couch in a particular way that I don't
approve of- you know, that "I am letting gravity take over and it's going
to slam me downward onto the cushions and I don't care how much the couch
doesn't like it, I'm simply too lazy to sit down properly. Dammit!" Do
you know what I mean?
You can guess what he sat on, smashing it to bits. Probably due to a
coloquial misunderstanding of me always telling him where he could stick
things.
So, here is my request: I'm looking to have it replaced by the sitter and
if anyone has an extra copy I'd be willing to take it off their hands.
Easy, right?
Also, I need Quincy's email address again ifsomeone knows it off the topof
their head- thanks.
- -JWH
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:19:51 -0600 (CST)
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From: "TIM LOAT"
To:
Subject: Maybe
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:21:28 -0500
Message-ID: <01bd2aca$46925f00$189435c6@pc.vaxxine.com>
Hi. I'm brand new to this list and please forgive me for asking this if is
has already been asked, but I was wondering about other the the fans. For
one, Where are they? What are the ages of people listening to them. What
other musical interests do they have? Me? I'm 18 years old from Niagara
Falls and I've been listening to them for about 5 years now and they have,
by far my favorite album, Dusk(which I'm sure some of you will definately
disagree with). I wouldn't call myself a die hard the the fan, but I am a
fan. I have Dusk, Mind Bomb, Infected and Burning Blue Soul. Other bands I
listen to are Jamiroquai, which are totally different, Radiohead(I know..
very commercial), Peter Gabriel.
Thanks.
PS By the way how many people are on this list anyway?
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Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:51:56 -0600 (CST)
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From: Nick Spivey
To: "infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: Re: Maybe
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:50:27 -0800
Message-ID: <34CD83B3.78251DDA@inreach.com>
MMMmmmm, Peter Gabriel.
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:24:21 -0600 (CST)
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From: HEDCANDY
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: theTHE anomilies
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:51:03 EST
Message-ID:
Hello,
I have been trying to finish my theTHE collection and only need the following
songs. Anyone care to assemble a cassette in trade? My list of stuff is at
http://members.aol.com/HEDCANDY/RAREMUSIC.html
Thanks!
THE PORNOGRAPHY OF DESPAIR (never released)
3.Screw Up Your Feelings 5.Soup of Mixed Emotions
SHADES OF BLUE (Epic 655796, 2/1991)
1.Jealous of Youth 3.Solitude 4.Dolphins
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIS-INFECTED (Epic 659811, ?/1993)
1.That Was The Day 2. Dis-Infected 3.Helpline Operator (sick boy mix) 4.
Dogs of Lust (germicide mix)
SWEET BIRD OF TRUTH (EPIC TRUTH 1, 12", Limited Edition of 7500, 5/1986)
2.Harbour Lights
HEARTLAND (EPIC TRUTH 2, 7", 7/1986)
2.Born in the New S.A.
INFECTED (EPIC TRUTH 3, 12", 10/1986)
2.Disturbed
THE BEAT(EN) GENERATION (EPIC CPEMU 8, 5" picture CD, 4/1989)
1.The Beat(en) Generation (7" Mix)
2.The Beat(en) Generation (Palmer Mix)
3.The Beat(en) Generation (Campfire Mix)
4.Angel
SLOW EMOTION REPLAY (EPIC 659077-5, 5" CD part 2 of 2, numbered, 4/1993)
2.Scenes From Arctic Twilight i-v
I SAW THE LIGHT (EPIC 661901-0, 10", 1/1995)
2.I'm Free At Last
3.Someday You'll Call My Name
4.There's No Room in My Heart For the Blues
COMPILATION APPEARANCES
"Lip Tripping" by The The
VOLUME 6 compilation
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:02:02 -0600 (CST)
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From: Wayne Herbert Pruden
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: 1 fan
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:59:05 -0800
Message-ID: <34CFB839.3FA1@xtra.co.nz>
Greetings. I too am keen to discover, just who listens to The The? My
name is Wayne. I am 35 and reside in Hamilton, New Zealand. I first
discovered Soul Mining in 1986, and wore out a vinyl copy in no time. I
then bought it on CD, and soon after (12 months), I finally got a
player. Not long after this my marriage broke up, and to be quite
honest, Soul Mining got me through. By this time I also had Infected on
CD, and two 12" vinyl copies. But 12 months ago, alas, my second
marriage failed, this time it was Dusk that pulled me through. I have
Dusk on CD and cassette, and I still play them almost everyday. I also
have Solitude on CD, and the Dusk bonus casstte.
When I'm not exposing myself to loud lashings of The The, I enjoy
listening to Godley and Creme (x-10cc), Yello, Hunters and Collectors,
Balaam and the Angel, and Lenny Kravitz. Hey, and I like Oasis!
To ad to an earlier topic, I am an Atheist, and I study Earth History
and Human Evolution. Check out the 'Aquatic Ape Theory' web site. This
will make your head spin on it's stump!
Next Please.
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:22:56 -0600 (CST)
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From: "Luis Costa"
To:
Subject: This is me...
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:18:42 -0000
Message-ID: <001101bd2c43$e86e0fc0$81c841c2@host.telepac.pt>
Sorry for the delay of my answer concerning the The fans, fave albuns et al.
I live in Castelo Branco, Portugal, I am 26 years old and have been a the
The
fan since 1995, by the first time they came to Portugal (hope the date's
right!)
I have tried to get all the the The tracks but it's really been quite
difficult...
I have all the albuns, some CDsingles and the "from dusk til dawn" and
"versus the world" videos. I listen to one of the albums (at least) once a
week
and they are still my all time fave band.
My fave album is "Mind Bomb" and my fave song is "Another Boy Drowning".
As far as I can say I'm the only portuguese fan in this list. Am I right?
I'd like to get in touch with other portuguese the The fans.
I also listen to New Order, Joy Division, Blur, James, Underworld ... ...
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Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:40:26 -0600 (CST)
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From: Jonathan Home
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: unsubscribed
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:37:13 -0800
Message-ID: <34D0CC57.10D1@vkool.com>
Please remove me off of your mailing list, thanks.
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:48:50 -0600 (CST)
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From: Wayne Herbert Pruden
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Burning Blue Soul
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:46:44 -0800
Message-ID: <34D22E24.6FBD@xtra.co.nz>
Greetings.
This is Wayne from New Zealand again. I have a query regarding Burning
Blue Soul. How can I get a copy? CD, tape, record, or home-made copy.
Heck, I'd even settle for a wax cylinder. I'm desperate! I had already
been a hardcore The The fan for several years, when I read an article in
the September 18, 1989 edition of Time magazine, about Matt and the
band. It was at the time when Mind Bomb was enjoying a good degree of
success. The article also made mention of the 'vaguely psychedelic
ramblings' of his 1981 debut solo album, Burning Blue Soul. An album I
hadn't even heard of. I was rediculed at our best local music store, and
told that I was mistaken, that the album I meant was Soul Mining. He
didn't even believe that there was a Time magazine article about him.
So, I am yet to hear or view this 'phantom' piece of music. As a foot
note, I went into that store on the 24th of December last year, for the
first time since. I found a Dusk casstte in a discount bin that was so
cheap, I couldn't leave it behind. I already have a CD and cassette of
Dusk, so I bought it for my brother, who was leaving for his holidays
the next day. He loaded up his van, jumped in, started up the engine,
and inserted the tape. Disco! Aaarrgghh! Wrong tape.
I still have the Time magazine mentioned earlier. So if any one wants a
copy of the article, let me know, and I'll have a go at firing up this
2400dpi paper-weight, commonly refered to as a scanner. It has all the
bells and whistles, but the skills of it's operator are less than
adequate.
Cheers.
------------------------------
Resent-Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:19:17 -0600 (CST)
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From: Wayne Herbert Pruden
To: infected@purpletape.cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Burning Blue Soul
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:14:15 -0800
Message-ID: <34D369F7.511A@xtra.co.nz>
Thanks to all those who have offered assisstance in abtaining a copy of
Burning Blue Soul. Sounds like availability is no problem in the US of
A.
My brother will land in LA in about 5 weeks, and then drive north into
Canada. I'll ask him to find me a CD.
The Time Magazine article should be ready soon.
Cheers.
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