june 97
------- start of digest (17 messages) (RFC 934 encapsulation) -------
From: Druckmann Itai
Sender: Druckmann Itai
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: It's better...
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 97 14:37:31 +0000
Message-ID:
Hi there,
Just a little quote :
"It's better to be God, then to be good, even though you lose an 'O' "
Have a nice day...
Itai
------------------------------
From: "David B. Hirsch"
To: The The list
Subject: gossip
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 11:55:12 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID:
a friend of mine met a friend of matt johnson's over the weekend. here is
the latest gossip:
matt and his girlfriend johanna have a new baby.
the album is taking a very long time.
he has been in spain working on it.
thats all i got.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
"My cold, cold heart is melted now. I seek for peace but don't know how.
I go to bed but only weep. My cold, cold heart won't let me sleep."
-- hank williams.
------------------------------
From: Sarah Lougheed
To: Theresa Hannigan
CC: ikao@engin.umich.edu, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: What??!!
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 21:42:16 -0700
Message-ID: <3394F226.EB7@aimnet.com>
Do i know either of you? i was scanning through old messages in my
in-box and came across your message...i don't remember receiving it last
week (it's dated 6 days ago) but there you are in my in-box in between
two messages i _do_ remember receiving/reading last week. Just curious!
i, too am trying to raise my child non-gender-specific with some degree
of success. My eight-year old son is growing his gorgeous hair long for
a ponytail and some of his female peers asked him at school last week
why he wanted to be a girl. He replied, "i'm growing long hair...not a
vagina!"
As a music teacher, i was heartened to hear about other families
exposing their kids to all types of music and not boxing their kids in
with the "correct" genre.
Keep up the good work, whoever you are!
- -sarah!
Theresa Hannigan wrote:
>
> Actually the penis-envy was said 'tongue-in-cheek". I surely don't need a
> penis to envy, just one to screw, and that isn't always necessary. I am also
> surely not a passive person. Miind you, not violent, but I do know what I want
> and will usually achieve it. When I was younger, I tended to be envious of,
> and even a little wary of the 'aggressive' girls. As time passed I realized I
> wasn't even correct in what I assumed was 'power and aggression'. I thought if
> a girl was intimidating, physical, and/or verbally boisteroous in her opinions
> that made her powerful. Now I show my daughter through example that this is
> not true. I constantly stress that power is respecting others opinions, but
> knowing your own mind and what yoou want regardless of what others think. She
> has always been exposed to both male and female activities and sees me achieve
> many goals without male assistance. I have a great husband, but we are our own
> people., and you know what? Y'know who her idol is? Pamela lee anderson, and
> she loves the spice girls. She has been exposed to great female singers sionce
> birth, alanis,joni, lush,courtney,..but she thinks they suck. Who the hell
> knows? I gave birth to a 'disco bimbo'. Or maybe she's been observing, and
> believes that no matter what I say, the power of a female is in her chest.
> This coould be true for many men, albeit the wrong ones. That will be our next
> lesson.
> Sorry to go off on a tangent, it really was just a joke. Life's to short, you
> shouldn't take everything so seriously. One thing I've learned is to save my
> anger for issues where it will make a difference. In most instances, I think
> people are quite formed in their opinions, and whether I agree or not will
> make no difference. It is important to let your voice be heard, buts thats
> about all you can do in most instances, and just live our lives
> indicative(?sic)of how we feel.
> Sheesh, am I babbling or what?I hope this makes some kind of sense.
>
> "If you can't change the world. Change yourself"
> MJ
> From: Irene Kao
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 1997 3:26 PM
> To: Theresa Hannigan
> Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
> Subject: What??!!
>
> Okay, okay. I'm sure you guys have become sick of hearing from me, but
> tough it out some more. I have to ask you guys, what constitutes
> "penis-envy"?? Just because women in music are aggressive and sing about
> whatever the fuck they want to does not (!!) mean that they have
> penis-envy. That's like saying that females can only make music of one
> kind, and that one kind has to be passive and wholesome. I mean, what
> the fuck?! When Alanis Morrissette came out, people were constantly
> pegging her the "angry chick singer", as if women aren't allowed to be
> dissatisfied with what's out there. Yet, the same people always herald
> male bands and singers who sing about the SAME thing (ex. Tool, Rage
> Against the Machine, and billions of others). Penis-envy?? I don't think
> so. I think it's more like women are coming out with what they want to
> do. So people should just take them as they are instead of trying to tag
> them as wanna-be's.
> Irene Kao
------------------------------
From: "Poltoranos, Ted"
To: infected
Subject: Re: Hello Matt
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:43:00 -0400
Message-Id: <199706101528.KAA18007@cs.uchicago.edu>
I was going through my hard drive, cleaning up old EMails, and found
this ... what's going on with the new album/tour ? Any news, anyone ?
----------
From: THETHEXXX
To: infected
Subject: Re: Hello Matt
Date: Thursday, September 26, 1996 11:39AM
The new album, working title UNTITLED is almost finished. Matt and the
band,
Eric Schermerhorn, guitar, Earl Harvin,drums, and Spencer Campbell,
bass,
have been recording in New York throughout this year with engineer and
co+producer Bruce Lampcov. The music is now finished and Matt is working
on
the lyrics and vocals at the moment. They are aiming to be mixing in
January-February with a May-June release. There will be a world tour
starting
next summer with extensive touring of North America throughout the year.
The band has been stripped down to a four piece. Out go keyboards and
harmonica, for a rougher, more up tempo feel.
There will be about 16 tracks on the new album. Which is much more than
any
previous TheThe album.
We have let the web site wither away at the moment but we will be
providing
extremely wide internet coverage of all the activities of next year. The
band
prefer to have a very low profile when they are working. Which is why
there
has been no information circulating.
Hope this info is sufficient. Please pass it around.
We look forward to seeing you next year.
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: "'Poltoranos, Ted'" ,
infected
Subject: RE: Hello Matt
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:51:41 -0500
Message-ID: <54508AEE02CCD011B0E70020AF9988B80106FB@fred.clearcom.net>
Things were cool, and now there is a little Johnson to delay everything
AGAIN, this time until 98. So I am listening to Viva Hate and
The Innocence Mission and Ben Harper, and gathering more fans for Matt's
work...Mind Bomb still turns on all the smart people I know....
-----Original Message-----
From: Poltoranos, Ted [SMTP:tpoltora@mobility.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 8:43 AM
To: infected
Subject: Re: Hello Matt
I was going through my hard drive, cleaning up old EMails, and
found
this ... what's going on with the new album/tour ? Any news,
anyone ?
----------
From: THETHEXXX
To: infected
Subject: Re: Hello Matt
Date: Thursday, September 26, 1996 11:39AM
The new album, working title UNTITLED is almost finished. Matt
and the
band,
Eric Schermerhorn, guitar, Earl Harvin,drums, and Spencer
Campbell,
bass,
have been recording in New York throughout this year with
engineer and
co+producer Bruce Lampcov. The music is now finished and Matt is
working
on
the lyrics and vocals at the moment. They are aiming to be
mixing in
January-February with a May-June release. There will be a world
tour
starting
next summer with extensive touring of North America throughout
the year.
The band has been stripped down to a four piece. Out go
keyboards and
harmonica, for a rougher, more up tempo feel.
There will be about 16 tracks on the new album. Which is much
more than
any
previous TheThe album.
We have let the web site wither away at the moment but we will
be
providing
extremely wide internet coverage of all the activities of next
year. The
band
prefer to have a very low profile when they are working. Which
is why
there
has been no information circulating.
Hope this info is sufficient. Please pass it around.
We look forward to seeing you next year.
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: Bill Fugina , Carl Barringer ,
"Allison Sichel (E-mail)" ,
"Amy Radtke (E-mail)"
,
"Brandee (E-mail)" ,
"Chris N Lici (E-mail)" ,
"Dankinia (E-mail)"
,
"Debbie (E-mail)" ,
"Dinsdale (E-mail)" ,
"Gully (E-mail)"
,
"Hal (E-mail)" ,
"Jill (E-mail)"
,
"karen bove (E-mail)" ,
"Karma Vowell (E-mail)" ,
"Lea Curry (E-mail)" ,
"Lilyruby (E-mail)"
,
"Lora Cain (E-mail)" ,
"Marisa Bozza (E-mail)" ,
"Mary Shokes (E-mail)"
,
"Matt Sommer (E-mail 2)" ,
"Matt Sommer (E-mail 3)" ,
"Matt (E-mail)"
,
"Melissa Cannon (E-mail)" ,
"Michelle (E-mail)" ,
"Mike Daane (E-mail)"
,
"Molly Rice (E-mail)" ,
"PAX (E-mail)"
,
"Rachel (E-mail)" ,
"Redwine (E-mail)" ,
"Scott Murphy (E-mail)"
,
"Sterling Productions (E-mail)" ,
"Tech (E-mail)" ,
"Terry Setter (E-mail)"
,
"the The's Unfortunate Children (E-mail)"
,
"Wayne Green (E-mail)"
Subject: Spice Girl Job Application
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:02:12 -0500
Message-ID: <54508AEE02CCD011B0E70020AF9988B8016865@fred.clearcom.net>
>>The Top 15 Questions on the Spice Girl Job Application
>>
>>
>>
>>15> In space provided, tell us why you want, why you
really,
>> really, want this job.
>>
>>14> Do you have any detectable vestige of talent,
besides your
>> hooters?
>>
>>13> Would it, like, bother you to be the target of
unrelenting
>> hatred?
>>
>>12> How would you best describe yourself?
>> ( ) An energetic self-starter
>> ( ) A team player
>> ( ) A tasty, albeit untalented, bit of crumpet
>>
>>11> True or false: A mosh pit is the seed of the mosh
fruit.
>>
>>10> "I am willing to trade sexual favors for a career
in the music
>> industry." ( )Yes ( )No
>>
>> 9> How many times have you been kicked out of a
karaoke bar?
>>
>> 8> Does nudity bother you? If so, should I put my
clothes back on?
>>
>> 7> Explain the difficulties in identifying the source
of
>> individual free will in light of the deterministic
theories of
>> neurochemical medicine and modern behavioralist
psychology.
>> Just kidding!! Seriously, do you like leather
mini-skirts?
>>
>> 6> Are you deceptively attractive in colored or
stroboscopic light?
>>
>> 5> Choose an appropriate nickname: Sexy, Nasty,
Sweetie, Chlamydia.
>>
>> 4> Have you ever been convicted of combining vertical
and
>> horizontal stripes?
>>
>> 3> If two trains leave Liverpool an hour apart at 90
kilometers,
>> and 75 kilometers an hour, respectively, how would
you look in
>> spandex?
>>
>> 2> Does the term "force majeure in perpetuity" make
you afraid or
>> just giggly?
>>
>>
>> and the Number 1 Question on the Spice Girl Job
Application...
>>
>>
>> 1> If required as part of your deal with Satan, would
you be
>> willing to help alleviate Prince Charles's
loneliness?
>
>
------------------------------
From: gdavis@nsi.edu (Glen A. Davis)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: gallery of theThe
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:00:23 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199706181600.JAA06832@amethea.nsi.edu>
Wow, I had a once in lifetime purusal of alternative the The album (yes,
vinyl album) covers last night. Was at a favorite cd/record store and
evidently some ardent MJ fan had traded in his rare collection. I counted
21 the The albums there for sale and all but maybe 2 were rare promo only
or just plain rare alternative covers. Some beatiful covers let me tell
you. The unfortunate things about the whole scene: 1. nearly all these
wonderful visual gratifications were radio only singles, meaning both front
and back of these album sized singles contained the same damn song and 2.
they were all priced at a minimum of $10 a shot!
I no longer collect vinyl and at those prices I had to pass. But must admit
some non-buyers remorse this morning (anything collectable gets snapped up
in hours in this town). I'm tempted to go back and get a few if really
collectable. Could anyone tell me if the following temptations are
exceptionally collectable:
1. The 2 album version of Hanky Panky on 78 sized lps (includes some songs
not on cd version).
2. The Tortured Boy cover version of Soul Mining (or was it Infected?)
3. The EP of Soul Mining with the alternative version of Uncertain Smile.
Just thought I'd share my news with the group.
BTW, note to Quincy-- how's the Dusk to Dawn tape coming along?
All the best.
Glen Davis
NSI
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
From: "Corbett J. Klempay"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Posters and whatnot...
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 17:13:33 -0400
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970621171333.00938210@hops.cs.jhu.edu>
I just moved into my apartment a week or so ago and my room is in some
serious need of decoration. Does anyone know of a place I could buy any
The The posters or something of the sort? I'm in Baltimore.
Corbett J. Klempay
cklempay@jhu.edu
http://www.ugrad.cs.jhu.edu/~cklempay
------------------------------
From: JWH
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Score this Weekend...
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:55:17 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID:
I picked up a few records, (that's like a 12" CD for those of you who
don't know) this weekend in sleepy old Tucson, AZ of all places.
Let me know what you think:
Infected LP
Mind Bomb LP
Soul Mining LP
Slow Train to Dawn EP
Beat(en) Generation EP
Infected EP - now I have two with the devil, um, you know, uh, his
thing-- one with a blue back and one with a pink back- What's the
difference?
Armageddon Days (are here again) EP
Gravitate to Me Boxed Set
I got something else, but I can't remember it right now since I'm a
bonehead and lost the list.
Anyway, I spent thirty bucks on all of it and most of it is brand new- let
me know if you're interested in anything since they had pretty much two of
everything.
- -Josh
jwh@u.arizona.edu
------------------------------
From: Druckmann Itai
Sender: Druckmann Itai
To: 72360.1576@compuserve.com, infected@cs.uchicago.edu,
110032.562@compuserve.com, erani@udi.co.il, 105326.1464@compuserve.com
Subject: (Fwd) [Fwd: Fwd: Nazi Usenet Gr
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 97 10:28:16 +0000
Message-ID: <8C28B133010C0400@teva.co.il>
- ------ Forwarded Message Follows -------
>>>>Subject: Nazi Usenet Group
>>>>
>>>> A few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create (again) a usenet
>>>> group where they want to keep in contact with each other
>>>> regarding their activities. I believe it is not necessary
>>>> to dwell further on these activities.
>>>>
>>>> The group is rec.music.white-power.
>>>>
>>>> To create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is
>>>> always organised when a new usenet group is created. All persons
>>>> with an email address, and only those, can vote in this
>>>> referendum.
>>>>
>>>> It is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is
>>>> cancelled.
>>>>
>>>> To prevent the creation of this group, you have to:
>>>> 1. Send this message to people you know
>>>> 2. Send an email to the following address:
>>>>
>>>> music-vote@sub-rosa.com
>>>>
>>>> with the following line as the ONLY content (not 'subject') of
>>>> the message:
>>>>
>>>> I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
>>>>
>>>> Since the vote is automatic, it is important to send the exact
>>>> line as it is given above, without adding anything, not even
>>>> a name.
>>>> And please send it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also, >>>
>please
>>>>
>>>> FORWARD THIS LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL
>>>> ADDRESS
>>>>
>>>> to prevent the founders from creating this group.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your collaboration.
>
>Lawrence Carrel carrel@interactive.wsj.com
>The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition http://wsj.com
>200 Liberty St., 9th Floor phone - (212) 416-3188
>New York, NY 10281 fax - (212) 416-3548
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: David B Leavenworth Jr
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Fwd: Nazi Usenet Group
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:15:40 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
Hello all,
This is an odd way to break my habit of lurking on this list, especially
on such an off topic... but I thought I would chime in here for the good
cause of possibly saving you from some junk e-mail...
This note about voting on a new Nazi news group looks like a ruse to
gather valid email addresses for distribution to spammers.
Why? Two reasons:
1) I admit that I am a newbie on the Internet in too many ways to count
but I have never heard of _voting_ on news group creations.
2) Assume you could vote... why would some rinky-dink site like
sub-rosa.com be taking the votes? Check out their web page
(www.sub-rosa.com) and you will see what I mean. They look like cool
people and all but hardly official Internet guardians.
Anyway... I could be wrong but I thought I would throw it out there
just in case.
More on topic... I really enjoyed reading the past flurry of activity on
this list, what?, three weeks ago? I had only just signed on myself so I
didn't contribute... acute stage fright ain't in it. :) But I love
intelligent conversation even if I am only listening.
I just picked up a CD in Berkeley a week or so ago called "THE THE VS.
HANK". It has every track of "Hanky Panky" followed by Hank's original.
The CD is labeled: "Demonstration - not for sale". I wonder why this CD
was made and who would they possibly be demonstrating to?
Finally, to the person who organized this list and also to whoever is
hosting it out there in Chicago, many sincere thanks... Can't wait for
the discussion when that long awaited new album materializes...
Take care,
Dave
David B. Leavenworth Jr., david@vestek.com
Systems Administrator, Vestek Systems, San Francisco
________________________________________________________________________
On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Druckmann Itai wrote:
> ------ Forwarded Message Follows -------
>
> >>>>Subject: Nazi Usenet Group
> >>>>
> >>>> A few Neo-Nazi groups are trying to create (again) a usenet
> >>>> group where they want to keep in contact with each other
> >>>> regarding their activities. I believe it is not necessary
> >>>> to dwell further on these activities.
> >>>>
> >>>> The group is rec.music.white-power.
> >>>>
> >>>> To create such a group, they have to win a referendum that is
> >>>> always organised when a new usenet group is created. All persons
> >>>> with an email address, and only those, can vote in this
> >>>> referendum.
> >>>>
> >>>> It is IMPORTANT to vote only once, otherwise the vote is
> >>>> cancelled.
> >>>>
> >>>> To prevent the creation of this group, you have to:
> >>>> 1. Send this message to people you know
> >>>> 2. Send an email to the following address:
> >>>>
> >>>> music-vote@sub-rosa.com
> >>>>
> >>>> with the following line as the ONLY content (not 'subject') of
> >>>> the message:
> >>>>
> >>>> I vote NO on rec.music.white-power
> >>>>
> >>>> Since the vote is automatic, it is important to send the exact
> >>>> line as it is given above, without adding anything, not even
> >>>> a name.
> >>>> And please send it only once or it becomes invalid ! Also, >>>
> >please
> >>>>
> >>>> FORWARD THIS LETTER TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WITH AN E-MAIL
> >>>> ADDRESS
> >>>>
> >>>> to prevent the founders from creating this group.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for your collaboration.
> >
> >Lawrence Carrel carrel@interactive.wsj.com
> >The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition http://wsj.com
> >200 Liberty St., 9th Floor phone - (212) 416-3188
> >New York, NY 10281 fax - (212) 416-3548
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: David B Leavenworth Jr
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: NAZI VOTE: The WHOLE and very OLD story (LONG)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 10:32:44 -0700
Message-ID: <33B1563C.1F9B@sirius.com>
Regarding the vote thang:
It was real, according to the searching I did, but the vote was taken
long ago. (MARCH OF 1996) and this Moldy Oldie is still being passed on
by net newbies. DELETE IT! The stupid chain letter is still making the
rounds. A deja news search shows that it has been circulating again
since early MAY. The fact that the headers I recieved mostly came from
Compuserve is a clue. For some reason Compuserve and AOL accounts
propagate this stuff like a yeast infection.
A short excerpt from below: (this is from the vote taker): =
> I will also note that I am *still* getting over 100+ messages a day
> regarding this vote, and those are just the misaddressed messages.
> (music-vote@sub-rosa.com pipes directly to /dev/null.) I expect to be
> getting votes for this proposal for the next several years, no matter
> what. (This is the curse of Altavista and Dejanews.) =
In other words you are voting into a black hole!
I have reproduced the whole article below, as its pretty amuzing how
much trouble being a volunteer "vote counter" can get you into.
Its also a good lesson in why you SHOULDN'T propogate Chain letters!
A couple of points: Usenet does take votes. That is part of the
process and quite normal. The address the votes go to merely reflect
the ISP of a volunteer, and you can't really draw anything from it. =
________________________________________________________________________
Below is the whole story of this in detail. Amazing its still going
around!
Unmoderated Group
Rec.music.white-power =
Fails 592:33033 =
The attempt to start a Usenet newsgroup devoted to
"White power music" was massively defeated by one of
the largest campaigns in Internet question. But the nature
of the campaign -- and some of the tactics used by the
anti-Nazis -- raise serious questions.
What follows is the official posting of the vote results, an
explanation for the delay in posting the results, and a note
from the votetaker on the campaigning and its
implications.
Date: 3 JUN 1996 21:23:08 -0400 =
From: Michael Handler =
Newgroups: news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, =
Subject: RESULT: rec.music.white-power fails 592:33033 =
RESULT unmoderated group rec.music.white-power fails
592:33033 =
There were 592 YES votes and 33033 NO votes, for a total of 33625
(apparently) valid votes. There were 17 abstains and 6252 invalid
ballots. =
For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES
and NO) votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes
than NO votes. =
The final vote acknowledgement list is not being included in this
message because of its very large size. It is available in the
news.announce.newgroups archives at:
ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.music.white-power=
That file is approximately 3.5 megabytes. =
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted.
Unless serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
group may not be voted on again for six months. =
Newsgroups line: rec.music.white-power Lyrics, albums, performers,
enjoyment of the genre. =
The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 18 Mar 1996. =
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Please address
any questions about the proposal to the proponent. =
Proponent: Milton John Kleim, Jr =
Votetaker: Michael Handler =
[jump ahead to a note on campaigning]
ON THE DELAY IN THE POSTING OF THE RESULTS =
I would apologize for the greater than two months delay between the
closing of the vote and the posting of the results. Given the extreme
length of time, I feel an explanation is in order. =
This vote generated an immense amount of traffic, far more than any
other vote I have ever handled. There were over 30,000 votes
counted in the final result, but the sheer number of mail messages
that I received far exceeeded that. I was deluged with requests for
information, real name corrections that were formatted improperly
and had to be handled manually, and improperly formatted vote
statements sent to the wrong address. I was flamed and accused of
being a white supremacist and a racist by people who didn't
understand that I was just the votetaker. =
I was mailbombed, both deliberately and accidentally. One person
sent me 15,000 blank email messages as a result of an error in his
mail software (or so he claimed). I was mailbombed by several
people because they thought I was responsible for the bot
campaigning for this vote on IRC (see below). =
As a result of the sheer volume of incoming email, the mail servers at
Net Access (my place of employment) became severely overloaded
several times. Twice this resulted in mail machines crashing and
requiring a reboot and emergency maintenance. =
Needless to say, my employers were less than pleased that my
personal activities were (a) cutting into my work time, (b) causing
such distress to our machines, and (c) disrupting service to our paid
customers. The net result of this was that I was unable to perform
any vote processing while at work. =
I consider this more than generous of them; they could have very
easily told me to just pipe all the vote mail to /dev/null. But they
were
extremely understanding and helpful, if very exasperated, and for this
I extend my thanks to them for allowing me to host the vote here. =
In addition to the time constraints as to when I could process the
votes, I was forced to only process them in batches of 500 and 1000,
or risk overloading the outgoing mail server as well. This slowed
down the process of getting ACKs to people, which made them mail
me asking where their ACK was, or mail me with another vote, and
generally increasing the amount of mail I was handling. =
When the vote finally closed, I had a huge amount of data to sort
through. There was rampant forgery during this vote, mainly due to
the controversial nature of this vote. Many of the forgeries were just
for arbitrary people, but there were multiple attempts to forge votes
in
the names of several specific people, like the proponent, Milton
Kleim. Several people notified me of the forgeries when they
recieved my automatic vote acknowledgements, and I removed their
votes. =
However, when I realized how widespread these forgeries were, I
started developing programs and heuristics to detect the forged
votes. This helped speed up much of the checking for forged votes,
but a significant portion still had to be checked by hand, and this
took
around three and a half weeks. =
After detecting and removing as many forged votes as possible, I still
had to deal with manually processing 2000 real name changes.
These people had made a small error in the resubmission in their
vote that made UseVote unable to process their messages
automatically. =
The final step before I could release the results was to manually
check the real name field for *each and every vote* to disqualify
votes that had username text, but were not actually names. I initially
thought I could finish this process within two weeks, but after it took
me three weeks to process 15,000 votes out of 30,000, I gave up the
project as infeasible, and decided to release the results without
invalidating bad names, as there was no chance that those votes
would change the outcome of the vote. =
I apologize for the delay, but given the magnitude of the project, I do
not think the time I took was entirely unreasonable. I could have
released the results a week after the vote closed, but those results
would have been riddled with forged votes, votes that people wanted
cancelled, and various other inconsistencies. Had I released them
earlier, I fear I would have started a firestorm of complaints, ranging
from people who had their usernames forged and never intended to
vote, to people who had submitted their real name corrections and
not had them processed. =
I did not consider that an acceptable outcome; it would cast doubt
upon the outcome and validity of the vote, and it would have
reflected negatively upon me, my reputation as a votetaker, and on
the UVV in general. I would much rather take slings and arrows for
delivering the results late and accurate rather than hurried and
incorrect. =
A NOTE UPON CAMPAIGNING =
By and large, this vote was one of the most actively campaigned in
USENET history, both for and against. =
There were several discrete and unrelated recurring email
spammers, who mailed unsolicited exhortations to vote on the group,
both for and against. There were many many incomplete copies of
the CFV crossposted to the length and breadth of USENET. =
And, there were two apparent firsts: =
Incomplete voting information was printed in several paper
publications. I recieved several messages mentioning how they
read about this vote in such-and-such's zine or newsletter. =
Someone set up an IRC robot that roved up and down the
channels in EFnet in alphabetical order, spamming each
channel with a multiline exhortation to vote against the proposal.
This was actively going on up until the last minute. Many IRC
operators attempted to kill or ban the robot, but it kept on
coming back through different accounts and servers. To my
knowledge, this is the first time that IRC has been used to
campaign for a USENET group in such a fashion. (I was
mailbombed repeatedly by someone who was annoyed at the
bot and thought that I was behind it.) =
The results of these massive amounts of campaigning really drove
home to me why campaigning for or against a USENET vote is such
a bad idea. =
The CFV, or incomplete voting instructions were forwarded to many
organized mailing lists and groups of friends, a la other chain
letters.
As a result, many people who had never heard about USENET or the
UVV or the CFV process or anything got these instructions, and
attempted to vote. Many of them had *no idea* what they were voting
for or against. =
I got many messages asking what this vote was about, or how I had
the authority to bring such a vote, or if this vote meant anything, or
if
this was a joke. I got many votes that said something to the effect of
"I vote against the Neo-Nazi web site," or "I vote against allowing
Neo-Nazis on the Internet," or "I vote no on the Nazis!" All of those
examples say clearly to me that those people had *absolutely no
idea* what they were voting on, and should not have voted at all. =
This is the consequence of massive vote campaigning. When
massive campaigning takes place, the CFV reaches many people it
normally would not, and the outcome of the vote is skewed
abnormally. It's clear (to me, at least) that this happened with the
rec.music.white-power proposal as well. =
I will also note that I am *still* getting over 100+ messages a day
regarding this vote, and those are just the misaddressed messages.
(music-vote@sub-rosa.com pipes directly to /dev/null.) I expect to be
getting votes for this proposal for the next several years, no matter
what. (This is the curse of Altavista and Dejanews.) =
As a curious footnote, it appears that the rec.music.white-power
proposal has assumed meme / urban legend status. As far as I can
tell, it is still circulating throughout several mailing lists, as it
is
"discovered" in archives somewhere by someone who does not
realize that the vote has ended, and it gets forwarded to all their
favorite mailing lists and friends, with an exhortation to "Vote to
stop
the Nazis!" It appears to be rapidly approaching Craig Shergold /
FCC Modem tax chain letter status. =
(As the vote was nearing completion, out of the the blue I got a
message from someone, attempting to vote on a
comp.os.ms-windows.* reorganization that I ran nearly a year ago. If
something like that can survive a year, something as controversial as
rec.music.white-power will live on for a long time. As I said, I expect
to be getting messages about this for several years.) =
THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL =
Finally, here is the original proposal that was being voted on. =
RATIONALE: rec.music.white-power =
There is no appropriate newsgroup for discussion of White Power
music, a phenomenon which is international in scope. Persons who
have an interest in this genre of music have no appropriate venue on
USENET in which to discuss this controversial topic. Other rec.music
groups' topics are too dissimilar, and many of their participants are
in
no way receptive of posts about this heated topic. Some discussion
of White Power music occurs on alt.skinheads and
alt.politics.white-power, but is inappropriate there due to the
former's
mostly lifestyle-oriented matters, and the latter's largely political
nature. Rec.music.white-power will prevent the "intrusion" of fans into
other, more vaguely-defined, newsgroups, where they will not be
welcomed. Discussions would necessarily be free and open, due to
the topic's controversial nature. This group should be unmoderated
because a moderator could exercise undue control over one
viewpoint's postings. =
CHARTER: rec.music.white-power =
All issues relating to the genre known as White Power music, since
it's inception until the present, covering all languages and
nationalities of performers, and all themes of pieces. =
Rec.music.white-power is an unmoderated newsgroup for the
entertaining and enlightening discussion of revolutionary new forms
of rock, country, and other sub-genres having racist/nationalist
themes. Both supporters and opponents will find the group
educational and intriguing. =
Potential topics will relate to the origin, development, and
dissemination of White Power music; to the artistic composition and
performance of the music; and to the personal opinions and
perceptions of those who enjoy particular bands and performers, and
pieces. =
Go to view the complete CFV =
=A9All rights reserved to Advanced Standards Inc. 1996 =
The JCN Web Site was designed for Netscape 2.0 browsers.
------------------------------
From: "Kayleigh Van Poolen"
To: "infected%cs.uchicago.edu" (Return requested)
Subject: I'm Back, again. Hopefully here to stay, my famous last words
Date: 25 Jun 1997 07:38:42 -0600
Message-Id:
<05E5933B111521AA*/c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=amex/o=aefa/ou=HUB3/ou=IDS/s=VanPoolen/g=Kayleigh/@MHS>
Technology ARGH! I had a name change done and in the process lost my incoming
internet mail. It has taken this long to get everything straightened out also
becuase I had those major exception errors. So if anyone tried to reach me in
the past month or two, i wasn't ignoring you, I was just shut off from my
internet umbilical cord.
And because I missed everything and I do not have web access, could some kind
soul fill me in on the recent activity. Please email me only. I'm the rest of
the rest doesn't need to hear everything all over again.
And on the Nazi thing, I would never vote on adding a site. 1. I suspect a
conspiracy to get email addresses. 2. If I could vote to eliminate another
site, being anti-censorhip in thought, I would vote to allow them access. If
someone could vote them down, then someone can vote "thethe.I.Love.you.alt."
down. I'd rather know what's out there and alert people than censor. Icky
bad, I'm getting shivers just thinking about that.
How's that for a I'm back again message. ;p
------------------------------
From: Irene Kao
To: Kayleigh Van Poolen
cc: "infected%cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: Re: I'm Back, again. Hopefully here to stay, my famous last words
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:09:25 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID:
I have to agree with you about the anti-censorship thing. Although I am
a minority in all senses of the word and a perfect target of these
groups, they do have a right to speak and assemble. Sure, they're fucked
up beyond words, but they should be able to set up a web site - not like
there aren't a lot of those white-supremacy group web sites anyway.
Sometimes the ignorance of these people amazes me...
Irene Kao
On 25 Jun 1997, Kayleigh Van Poolen wrote:
> Technology ARGH! I had a name change done and in the process lost my incoming
> internet mail. It has taken this long to get everything straightened out also
> becuase I had those major exception errors. So if anyone tried to reach me in
> the past month or two, i wasn't ignoring you, I was just shut off from my
> internet umbilical cord.
>
> And because I missed everything and I do not have web access, could some kind
> soul fill me in on the recent activity. Please email me only. I'm the rest of
> the rest doesn't need to hear everything all over again.
>
> And on the Nazi thing, I would never vote on adding a site. 1. I suspect a
> conspiracy to get email addresses. 2. If I could vote to eliminate another
> site, being anti-censorhip in thought, I would vote to allow them access. If
> someone could vote them down, then someone can vote "thethe.I.Love.you.alt."
> down. I'd rather know what's out there and alert people than censor. Icky
> bad, I'm getting shivers just thinking about that.
>
> How's that for a I'm back again message. ;p
>
******************************************************************************
"When all think alike, then no one is thinking."
- Walter Lippman
"Don't walk in front of me... "the mainstream
I may not follow. is so polluted with lies
Don't walk behind me... once you are wet
I may not lead. it's so hard to get dry"
Just walk beside me... - Ani DiFranco
and be my friend." "Roll With It" It"
- Anonymous Not So Soft
******************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Druckmann Itai
Sender: Druckmann Itai
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Apologizing
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 10:05:12 +0000
Message-ID: <6872B233010C0400@teva.co.il>
Hi there all,
I would like to apologize using this list for something that was
important to me. I do think it's important but I think the use
of this list was wrong. I am sorry for that.
Good morning to you all,
Itai.
------------------------------
From: winky@lumen.law.vill.edu (Winky Harrelson)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu (Infected Mailing List)
Subject: Re: I'm Back, again. Hopefully here to stay, my famous last words
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 08:48:36 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id: <199706301248.IAA25728@mail.law.vill.edu>
> And on the Nazi thing, I would never vote on adding a site. 1. I suspect a
> conspiracy to get email addresses. 2. If I could vote to eliminate another
> site, being anti-censorhip in thought, I would vote to allow them access. If
> someone could vote them down, then someone can vote "thethe.I.Love.you.alt."
> down. I'd rather know what's out there and alert people than censor. Icky
> bad, I'm getting shivers just thinking about that.
>
Thanks to Lea Curry we all now know this is not a conspiracy but an
actual vote.
On your second point, the voting thing is not traditionally done to
censor anyone but to keep the number of usenet groups to a managable
level. We are talking about usenet groups here, not mailing lists
(such as this infected group), and not web sites. Many sites have over
5000 groups and I have heard of sites that have over 10000 groups and
that is just way too much to maintain. The reason someone should vote
against a group is to keep things more managable and if given the choice
I would vote against some groups that I would like to read info from.
One of the groups that I read a lot (rec.auto.sport) used to have a
sister group (rec.sport.auto) that had mostly the exact same messages as
the first so it was a complete waste and I would have voted it down.
Except for this group and a few other similar type groups, the voting
process is very well done and a very good thing. I do believe that the
group in question should have had a fair voting process but what is done
is done.
Thanks once again to Lea Curry for sending us that interesting and very
informative explanation.
Winky
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Infected Mailing List
Subject: SPAM
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 07:40:51 -0700
Message-ID: <33B7C573.67C7@sirius.com>
Interesting that the spammers are now invading the list. This VIP
thing has completely forged addresses, and do NOT send in the remove
they provide at the end. They will add your name to their CONFIRMED
mailing list and you will get tONS of spam. The REMOVE thing is a scam
to collect more addresses.
If you want to complain here is where it really came from:
> Cyber Promotions ANSWERME4-DOM
> 8001 Castor Avenue, Suite #127
> Philadelphia, PA 19152
> USA
>
> Domain Name: ANSWERME.COM
>
> Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
> Wallace, Sanford SW1708 domreg@CYBERPROMO.COM
> 215-628-9780
> Billing Contact:
> Wallace, Sanford SW1708 domreg@CYBERPROMO.COM
> 215-628-9780
>
> Record last updated on 23-Apr-97.
> Record created on 23-Apr-97.
> Database last updated on 30-Jun-97 04:40:19 EDT.
>
> Domain servers in listed order:
>
> NS7.CYBERPROMO.COM 205.199.2.250
> NS5.CYBERPROMO.COM 205.199.212.50
> NS8.CYBERPROMO.COM 207.124.161.65
> NS9.CYBERPROMO.COM 207.124.161.50
>
Answerme.com is an infamous Cyber Promo front. This is Sanford
Wallace. He has been taken to court many times and is a major crook.
Somehow they picked up the list and now we can expect to probably see
more crap. The list should be closed to non subscibers, to keep this
shit out. The address given to send money to is a mail drop and if they
send ANYTHING in return it is worthless. This is a well known scam.
Lea
- --
"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
They got muscles for brains..."
- - Gang of Four
------- end -------