november 96
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From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: similar to mj's lyrics
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:15:08 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961101181455.1d3fc8f0@student.anu.edu.au>
take a read of this:
"It is said that it is the peculiar quality of time to conserve fact, and
that it does so by rendering our past falsehoods true. So it was with me.
I had lied in saying that I loved the guild - that I desired nothing but to
remain in its embrace. Now I found those lies become truths. The life of a
journeyman and even that of an apprentice seemed infinitely attractive. Not
only because I was certain to die, but truly attractive in themselves,
because I had lost them." (G Wolfe, 'The Shadow of the Torturer', p120)
The tale is at the point where Severian, the protagonist and narrator, has
committed a crime for which he is awaiting punishment by the same people who
used to be his teachers up until he committed the crime. On reading that
paragraph I was immediately reminded of MJ's lyrics...."we feel nostalgia
for things that were maybe never there" and "our lies become truths in the
face of fading youth".
I wonder how many other books contain insight parallel with MJ's. I get off
on Gene Wolfe's 'The Book of the New Sun' series because of his amazing
observations of humanity, of our motivations and the workings of our minds,
and just as importantly, the exactness with which he expresses his observations.
Cheers, (the devil is no longer behind me)
Bambang
------------------------------
From: david stephen anderson
To: Bambang
cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: similar to mj's lyrics
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:38:30 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
I have just recently dicovered Gene Wolfe as well. His writing is quite
moving, and in its own way not unlike MJ's lyrics. To those who enjoy
Gene Wolfe, I highly recomend Stephen R. Donaldson. His wrighting is
also profoundly emotional and highly insightful.
Dave
------------------------------
From: Behfar Bastani-Booshehri
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: forwarded message from Scott Anderson
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:21:37 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199611050421.WAA04439@gargoyle164.cs.uchicago.edu>
this is from scott. replies please to him.
- -behfar
From: Scott Anderson
To: behfar@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Hello...and glad you got the cd..and...
..could you forward this information out to the list for me please??
There is a store round these parts with....
The The "Love Is Stronger Than Death" US promo cd...
It has...
1.LISTD...regular Dusk version...
2.Infected (Live...recorded live at the Royal Albert Hall July 1990) (4:46)
...it was 8 dollars and they had two copies....
Anyone wanting one drop me a line! Thanks, Scott. scandcar@dpc.net
- ------- end -------
------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:22:31 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961106022153.271f05d4@student.anu.edu.au>
"could God really be so cruel to give us feelings that can never be fulfilled.."
when taken out of its proper context it could easily be rhetoric questioning
those things in this here life that we cannot obtain... a desire to be with
someone is what comes aptly to mind. a couple of years ago I thoroughly
identified with that inspired song, however, to my recent realisation I have
passed it by. any identification I have with that song now is as above: a
desire that can never be enacted (of course I might be mistaken - one can
never know what's in store...) the feeling might be fundamentally the same
as the one the MJ sings about; whereas I used to walk a certain path hoping
that the feeling would be fulfilled, without actually knowing what would do
that, nowadays I know how to fulfill it but, for better or for worse, I
probably will not be able to do that.
"I ain't never found peace upon the breast of a girl, I ain't never found
peace with the religion of the world, I ain't never found peace at the
bottom of a glass..."
the lack of peace is a parallel of the lack of fulfillment, a matter of not
knowing what one wants or else knowing what one wants without understanding
how to achieve it. It will be interesting to see whether mj has changed,
whether he is more at home with himself, and whether he is gonna tell us
about it. my experience of this world changed the day my ideal was replaced
with a actual, the day my ideal was left far behind and I embraced someone
far beyond my it... and what I wanna ask is does true happiness lie with the
rest of the Dusk album, with Love is Stronger than Death, and the other
songs? I've been contemplating that song for three years now and still I am
clueless on that last line...It is the most impressive though on the album,
it grabs me deep down, far more than the vivid descriptions of mindsets and
emotions throughout the whole album, it has a bit of mystery in it, the call
of the man beset on all sides by unfulfilment and dissatisfaction tempting
me toward a nought - no desires, no values, no hopes - nothing to be fucked
over anymore. Is this what he is saying? Happiness is possible, I say,
through positives, not through avoiding negatives... the relieving of pain
is not pleasure... is death in mj's eyes the inevitable consequence of his
possessing feelings? If it is, booey! Look at the cause, instead of closing
your eyes. Saying it is in one's nature is the biggest cop-out in history...
So is my mind at 2am this night. the demons within my sleep beckon and drag
me nearer to them. cheers,
bambang
________________________________________________________
The Foxy Lady smiles.....
Oh what a difference 'twould make
If she and I were free to play.
The Foxy Lady smiles.....
And I grin back
For she is mine today.
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: Behfar Bastani-Booshehri
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: happiness
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:37:52 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199611051937.NAA22610@gargoyle164.cs.uchicago.edu>
the respected and revered P.Love@student.anu.edu.au spake thusly:
> the lack of peace is a parallel of the lack of fulfillment
damn right!
> ... and what I wanna ask is does true happiness lie with the
> rest of the Dusk album, with Love is Stronger than Death, and the other
> songs?
...
> the call of the man beset on all sides by unfulfilment and
> dissatisfaction tempting me toward a nought - no desires, no values,
> no hopes - nothing to be fucked over anymore. Is this what he is
> saying? Happiness is possible, I say, through positives, not
> through avoiding negatives... the relieving of pain is not
> pleasure... is death in mj's eyes the inevitable consequence of his
> possessing feelings? If it is, booey! Look at the cause, instead of
> closing your eyes. Saying it is in one's nature is the biggest
> cop-out in history...
why is mj tempting you towards a naught? is it because "the only true
freedom is freedom from your heart's desires"? if so, is not your
"replacing the ideal with the actual" in the same spirit?
but what i think is this: if desire is given free climb, it'll go
higher and higher until eventually there's something you can't have,
and then there's misery. and when you get even that one taken care of,
there's one more waiting behind it..
"someday you'll come my way.. and when you put your arms around me,
i'll be looking over your shoulder for someone new" how many times
have we been there??
*i* say what mj means is "i'll be looking over your shoulder, BECAUSE
you came my way.."
my take: freedom from your heart's desires is not dullness and naught.
it's stopping what those damn desires tell you how the world *should*
be, and instead dealing with the way the world actually is. which is
far more than naught..
true happiness always comes when i stop looking for it.
behfar
------------------------------
From: americo.camargo@mandic.com.br
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:12:00 -0200
Message-Id: <199611271112.JAA05123@merlim.mandic.com.br>
My friends,
I live in Brazil and I=B4ve been trying hard to get the lyrics of "This is
the day" by hearing, but I can't understand some words. Could anybody send
it to me? By the way, if you need something from brazilian music, please,
ask me. Thanks a lot.
Americo Camargo
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Bambang
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re:
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 08:58:53 -0800
Message-ID: <327F724D.170E@sirius.com>
Bambang writes:
> and what I wanna ask is does true happiness lie with the
> rest of the Dusk album, with Love is Stronger than Death, and the other
> songs? I've been contemplating that song for three years now
I think with a good lyricist that really "listens" to those around him,
the words seem to mean different things to different people. I think
it;s part of a sort of "communion" with the audience.
When I first heard Love is Stronger than Fear, I immediately heard it as
a tribute to John Lennon. (knowing that mj was very influenced by Lennon
might have helped me make that jump), but the style, musically, and the
whole feeling had that spiritual sense that Lennon always projected.
I sort of see mj taking a little walk with Lennon.
Whether that's what he intended, or what Johns ghost intended, or just
wishful thinking on my part, I am sure I'll never know, but I think we
read in what we want or need, with good music.
One thing that I really admire about mj is that he doesn't seem to be
preaching or inventing towards the audience, but merely catalogging his
own progress. I always feel like I am looking over his shoulder at a
very strange diary, but good strange.
When he sings "I was just another western guy....", or Lennon sings
"I'm just a jealous guy....." I assume that's what they mean.
Ya know I am 40 , and most of what I know about men I learned from rock
n roll. You can't pay much attention to what they tell you on an
individual basis, from day to day, but collectively, what they sing
about gives me a glimmer to what is going on in those testosterone
infused brains.
Lea
------------------------------
From: kevin paez
To: Melissa Cannon
CC: lea@sirius.com, Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 18:03:20 -0400
Message-ID: <32810B28.3EF1@clearcom.net>
Melissa Cannon wrote:
>
> RE>> 11/5/96
>
> Funny, I have been doing the same thing as well. Why is that? Guys,
> is there something you're afraid to tell us?
>
> Mel
Well, we are afraid to tell you stuff because our mothers won't let us and
our Fathers are dead becaused they did tell. I learned about women from
Kiss. I learned about sexuality from "Debbie Does Dallas". What I know for
certain is that some women are fascinated with men's psyche and filter
what they perceive through a mixed collection of pop psychology, sexual
experience, and modified intuition. Is there something you women are
afraid to ask directly? Or are you just generally wondering, hoping the
answer will be tossed out by one of these fine the The fans?
I wonder if any of our homosexual men in the group can answer this...that
experience is under-represented here (along with the Motorhead
contingent).
Perhaps true happiness lies within freedom from the hearts desires,
which includes the desire to know about the opposite sex. Give up, and
experience men around you without trying to figure them out.
I figured out women a long time ago, and it was disappointing. Please, don't
set yourselves up for a fall.
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: lea@sirius.com
Cc: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re:
Date: 5 Nov 1996 12:10:34 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>> =
11/5/96
Funny, I have been doing the same thing as well. Why is that? Guys, is =
there something you're afraid to tell us?
Mel
- --------------------------------------
Ya know I am 40 , and most of what I know about men I learned from rock
n roll. You can't pay much attention to what they tell you on an
individual basis, from day to day, but collectively, what they sing
about gives me a glimmer to what is going on in those testosterone
infused brains.
Lea
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 08:58:53 -0800
From: Lea Curry
Reply-To: lea@sirius.com
Organization: needed
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Bambang
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re:
References: <1.5.4.16.19961106022153.271f05d4@student.anu.edu.au>
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------------------------------
From: david stephen anderson
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: From Dusk til Dawn
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:24:35 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
This weekend I had the incredible experience of viewing From Dusk til
Dawn. For all those who have not seen it I highly recomend it. To those
who have seen it, do any of you know where I could get my own copy of
this video?
Dave
"Does not Corruption believe all together in its own rightness."
- -Stephen R. Donaldson
------------------------------
From: santiago zorzopulos
To: infected
Subject: The gadgets
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:50:18 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
Hello to everyone,
I am new to this list so I apologize in advance for the lack of knowledge
I'm about to display.
I've been a the The fan for many years now, and a couple of years ago I
found a gadgets album at a record convention. I bought it quite
naturally, and then proceeded to do some homework about it.
In a book about musicians, it said that 'The Gadgets' was a side project
Matt Johnson did some time in '83 (or around). Okay...
In a posted online interview, Matt Johnson himself said that his
participation was minimal. Okay...
And that's been basicly the extent of what I've found on this mystery
band which may or may not have been something MJ was truly involved with.
Despite what MJ said in the interview, I enjoy the music. It's nothing
spectatculare, but still has it's own charm.
I was wondering if anyone out there has any information about the truth
behind 'the Gadgets'. The album I have is titled 'The Blue Album'.
Regards,
Santiago Zorzopulos
zorzopul@students.uiuc.edu
------------------------------
From: Antonio Salatti Garcia
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Maro&the mambas
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:09:40 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id: <199611061009.LAA03145@esi.us.es>
Hi!!
Now that someone wrote about The Gadgets i've remenbered that
a guy told me about a group called Maro&the mambas with Marc
Almond y MJ.Is that true and if it is i'd like to know more
about that.Thanx.
- --
"Holier than thou,yes it's true i'm too good for you"
Antonio Salatti Garcia
Sevilla(SPAIN)
e-mail:salatti@esi.us.es
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Maro&the mambas
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 18:42:36 -0500
Message-ID: <19961106233940.AAA3010@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
I understand Matt opened for Soft Cell in another country around 1979.
But I have no proof of it.
Vonn
- ----------
From: santiago zorzopulos
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 1996 12:20 PM
To: Antonio Salatti Garcia
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Maro&the mambas
On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Antonio Salatti Garcia wrote:
> Hi!!
> Now that someone wrote about The Gadgets i've remenbered that
> a guy told me about a group called Maro&the mambas with Marc
> Almond y MJ.Is that true and if it is i'd like to know more
> about that.Thanx.
> --
> "Holier than thou,yes it's true i'm too good for you"
>
>
> Antonio Salatti Garcia
> Sevilla(SPAIN)
> e-mail:salatti@esi.us.es
>
>
>
>
It seems easy enough to believe that Almond and MJ could have
worked a bit together. They both came from the budding music scene of the
late 70's early 80's. Several of these musicians which came from there
quite possibly worked together at some point in their artistic career. I
think MJ also worked with fetus for a bit. ofcourse, this is all rumor
and hearsay, nothing that I have any concrete evidence about.
Regards,
Santiago Zorzopulos
zorzopul@students.uiuc.edu
------------------------------
From: santiago zorzopulos
To: Antonio Salatti Garcia
cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Maro&the mambas
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:20:07 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Antonio Salatti Garcia wrote:
> Hi!!
> Now that someone wrote about The Gadgets i've remenbered that
> a guy told me about a group called Maro&the mambas with Marc
> Almond y MJ.Is that true and if it is i'd like to know more
> about that.Thanx.
> --
> "Holier than thou,yes it's true i'm too good for you"
>
>
> Antonio Salatti Garcia
> Sevilla(SPAIN)
> e-mail:salatti@esi.us.es
>
>
>
>
It seems easy enough to believe that Almond and MJ could have
worked a bit together. They both came from the budding music scene of the
late 70's early 80's. Several of these musicians which came from there
quite possibly worked together at some point in their artistic career. I
think MJ also worked with fetus for a bit. ofcourse, this is all rumor
and hearsay, nothing that I have any concrete evidence about.
Regards,
Santiago Zorzopulos
zorzopul@students.uiuc.edu
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 23:00:41
Message-Id: <199611070300.WAA32642@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>I also agree with this except for the last paragraph. I have the
>tendency to think that women are infinetely cooler then men.
>
> Dave
Good god, Rico Suave on the infected list...
Stoooooooooop! Noooooooow!
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: "Melissa Cannon" , infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 21:22:10 -0500
Message-ID: <19961107021913.AAA2923@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
I must have been the only one that knew you were injecting a little
humor. At least as far as you know. However, men have this
instinctive fear of saying what is on their minds, to a female, in a
romantic relationship. But they will spill it all to a female friend.
Go figure. We are odd that way.
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 1996 6:42 PM
To: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: All Men Are Pigs
Good. Now that I have your attention, I'll let you all in on a little sec=
ret. I DON'T MEAN IT!!!
To all the good men of the Infected Mailing List:
It seems I may have ruffled a few feathers with my response to Lea's stat=
ement about figuring out men through rock. (Guys, is there something you'=
re afraid to tell us?) I was just injecting a little humor, fellas.
Some of you took it way too seriously, though. PLEASE, lighten up.
But while we're on the subject of truth and honesty and women trying to u=
nderstand men, I'll share my opinion. Please note this is my opinion only=
and does not reflect the thoughts of all other women out there. Well, ma=
ybe some, but I'm only speaking for myself here.
If I seek information, I will ask questions (from men AND women). Perhaps=
, some of you have been burned in the past by a girlfriend who asked, "Do=
es this outfit make my hips look too big?" or "Do you think that girl is =
prettier than me?" Those are loaded questions and would get anyone in tro=
uble. I've never bothered to ask that type of question because I already =
know the answer: my hips are too big and she probably is prettier than me=
=2E The way I see it, the girl who asks these questions is probably looki=
ng for an ego booster, anyway. This is not the point I was trying to make=
when I asked if there was something you were afraid to tell us.
What I want to know is why do some men refuse to share all that's going o=
n in their mind? Sometimes you can spot the wheels churning away in some =
guy's head, but when you ask, "What's up?" he doesn't answer. Maybe it's =
just me, but if someone I care about asks me what's going on, I'll start =
yammering away, (You asked, didn't you?) and I would expect the same thin=
g in return. I, at least, have this type of relationship with my closest =
friends (most of whom are male). I guess that's what brings us together. =
For the record, they will tell me things I don't necessarily want to hear=
, but nonetheless, the truth. I can't get upset with them. It's only thei=
r opinion, and this is mine.
So, that it's. Hope I haven't made too many enemies because it was not my=
intention. Oh the hell with it, the whole thing is a lie. Can't we just =
kiss and make up? I don't want to start any wars between the sexes, or at=
least between me and every single man on this mailing list.
Mel
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:50:22
Message-Id: <199611071750.MAA07179@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>the walls. Men are like that - we're pretty basic,
speak for yourself, please.
>2) At the same time I have an embarassingly wide romantic streak
in me
>that I should have lost right about my freshman year in high
school.
why should you "lose" such a thing?
>Once or twice a girl I was dating for the first or second time has
asked
>me "What are you thinking about?" -- and the truth has been "What
>beautiful eyes" or "Which model of minivan should we buy?". So I
>stammer and say "Oh, nothing" and that's generally been the last
date.
huh?
>3) Men also have a way of seeming deeper than they really are.
>Sometimes when I'm asked what's on my mind I can only answer,
honestly, "hair".
Why are so many lines from "The Pet Detective" coming to mind?
I'm not sure whether you're an ass hole, a loooooo-who-ser, or a
lot like O.J.
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "David B. Hirsch"
To: The The list
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:54:12 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID:
i think dave is trying to get lucky. does that routine work for the boys
in the women's studies classes?
>
> >I also agree with this except for the last paragraph. I have the
> >tendency to think that women are infinetely cooler then men.
> >
> > Dave
>
>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
"Come to my house an' we'll pick bones, there hands outside ready with
stones. Come to my yard--I got whiskey an' chairs, we'll sit on the
porch as the good men stare."
-sixteen horsepower
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "Ryan E Wick"
Cc: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: 6 Nov 1996 17:28:43 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>>All Men Are Pigs =
11/6/96
Ryan,
There are a lot of creepy girls out there. You just have to look. And I'm =
not saying you have to share your innermost thoughts with every chick =
within a 50 mile radius? Just the one you love.
Mel
P.S. I can kick your ass at dodgeball anyday.
- --------------------------------------
Date: 11/6/96 5:22 PM
To: Melissa Cannon
From: Ryan E Wick
Okay, you asked for it Mel,
The main reason I don't tell girls what's on my mind is because I
don't feel comfortable discussing every perverted little thought that
creeps into my mind as slowly as it oozes out. Guys are capable of
thinking up some pretty sick shit, most of which would probably get a man =
arrested. That weird silence that looms over us guys is a
black cloud of dirty/doubtful thoughts.
It's come to my attention that everyone is searching for someone else
who is equally as sick and twisted as themself. This is why I, for one,
hesitate before sharing my thoughts. After all, the girl sitting next to =
me
could never be more disgusting than myself. Right? Of course, I'll never
REALLY know because I'll never REALLY share.
Also, you girls always pry and poke at a guy's comment as if it's
some scientific experiment gone awry. Its alright to ponder our words (a
bit), but why do girls have to try to interpet our tone and phonetics, =
and
lexicon? You women give us way too much credit, sometimes men actually =
mean
what we say and nothing more.
Another reason I hate sharing my thoughts with girls is because
they suck. They can't build cool forts, and they're bad at dodgeball too!
- -Ryan (guys out there, please don't banish me from the fraternal
Brotherhood of Men for divulging any of our secrets to the enemy)
"kill all the blacks
kill all the reds
and if there's war between the sexes
than there'll be no people left" J.Jackson
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Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:18:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Ryan E Wick
To: Melissa Cannon
Cc: Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
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------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: All Men Are Pigs
Date: 6 Nov 1996 15:42:13 -0800
Message-Id:
Good. Now that I have your attention, I'll let you all in on a little =
secret. I DON'T MEAN IT!!!
To all the good men of the Infected Mailing List:
It seems I may have ruffled a few feathers with my response to Lea's =
statement about figuring out men through rock. (Guys, is there something =
you're afraid to tell us?) I was just injecting a little humor, fellas.
Some of you took it way too seriously, though. PLEASE, lighten up.
But while we're on the subject of truth and honesty and women trying to =
understand men, I'll share my opinion. Please note this is my opinion =
only and does not reflect the thoughts of all other women out there. =
Well, maybe some, but I'm only speaking for myself here.
If I seek information, I will ask questions (from men AND women). Perhaps,=
some of you have been burned in the past by a girlfriend who asked, =
"Does this outfit make my hips look too big?" or "Do you think that girl =
is prettier than me?" Those are loaded questions and would get anyone in =
trouble. I've never bothered to ask that type of question because I =
already know the answer: my hips are too big and she probably is prettier =
than me. The way I see it, the girl who asks these questions is probably =
looking for an ego booster, anyway. This is not the point I was trying to =
make when I asked if there was something you were afraid to tell us.
What I want to know is why do some men refuse to share all that's going =
on in their mind? Sometimes you can spot the wheels churning away in some =
guy's head, but when you ask, "What's up?" he doesn't answer. Maybe it's =
just me, but if someone I care about asks me what's going on, I'll start =
yammering away, (You asked, didn't you?) and I would expect the same =
thing in return. I, at least, have this type of relationship with my =
closest friends (most of whom are male). I guess that's what brings us =
together. For the record, they will tell me things I don't necessarily =
want to hear, but nonetheless, the truth. I can't get upset with them. =
It's only their opinion, and this is mine.
So, that it's. Hope I haven't made too many enemies because it was not my =
intention. Oh the hell with it, the whole thing is a lie. Can't we just =
kiss and make up? I don't want to start any wars between the sexes, or at =
least between me and every single man on this mailing list.
Mel
------------------------------
From: Marc Tompkins
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 22:32:15 -0700
Message-ID: <3281745F.6142@earthlink.net>
Mel sez:
> What I want to know is why do some men refuse to share all that's
> going on in their mind?
I've checked out a number of the responses to this one (and no, Mel, I
NEVER would've guessed you were being facetious!) and though I nearly
agree with some (except Dave who is obviously trying to score) I have a
slightly different take on it.
1) Yes, sometimes what I'm actually thinking would peel the paper off
the walls. Men are like that - we're pretty basic,
testosterone-poisoned individuals most of us, and sometimes you just
down't want to know what's going on up there.
2) At the same time I have an embarassingly wide romantic streak in me
that I should have lost right about my freshman year in high school.
Once or twice a girl I was dating for the first or second time has asked
me "What are you thinking about?" -- and the truth has been "What
beautiful eyes" or "Which model of minivan should we buy?". So I
stammer and say "Oh, nothing" and that's generally been the last date.
Of course usually the truth is "Wonder what she looks like naked?" (see
#1 above) and the answer is the same.
3) Men also have a way of seeming deeper than they really are.
Sometimes when I'm asked what's on my mind I can only answer, honestly,
"hair".
- --
Marc
"Mother, I tried - please believe me
I'm doing the best that I can
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through
I'm ashamed of the person I am"
------------------------------
From: Ryan E Wick
To: Melissa Cannon
Cc: Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:18:15 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id:
Okay, you asked for it Mel,
The main reason I don't tell girls what's on my mind is because I
don't feel comfortable discussing every perverted little thought that
creeps into my mind as slowly as it oozes out. Guys are capable of
thinking up some pretty sick shit, most of which would probably get a man
arrested. That weird silence that looms over us guys is a
black cloud of dirty/doubtful thoughts.
It's come to my attention that everyone is searching for someone else
who is equally as sick and twisted as themself. This is why I, for one,
hesitate before sharing my thoughts. After all, the girl sitting next to me
could never be more disgusting than myself. Right? Of course, I'll never
REALLY know because I'll never REALLY share.
Also, you girls always pry and poke at a guy's comment as if it's
some scientific experiment gone awry. Its alright to ponder our words (a
bit), but why do girls have to try to interpet our tone and phonetics, and
lexicon? You women give us way too much credit, sometimes men actually mean
what we say and nothing more.
Another reason I hate sharing my thoughts with girls is because
they suck. They can't build cool forts, and they're bad at dodgeball too!
- -Ryan (guys out there, please don't banish me from the fraternal
Brotherhood of Men for divulging any of our secrets to the enemy)
"kill all the blacks
kill all the reds
and if there's war between the sexes
than there'll be no people left" J.Jackson
------------------------------
From: Huck
To: Ryan E Wick
CC: Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 01:47:28 +0100
Message-ID: <328131A0.1DDB@wwonline.com>
> They can't build cool forts, and they're bad at dodgeball too!
they definately cannot build forts! it is their weakness. They can only
hope that we do it for them.
jr
------------------------------
From: david stephen anderson
To: Ryan E Wick
cc: Melissa Cannon ,
Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:28:04 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
I also agree with this except for the last paragraph. I have the
tendency to think that women are infinetely cooler then men.
Dave
On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Ryan E Wick wrote:
> Okay, you asked for it Mel,
> The main reason I don't tell girls what's on my mind is because I
> don't feel comfortable discussing every perverted little thought that
> creeps into my mind as slowly as it oozes out. Guys are capable of
> thinking up some pretty sick shit, most of which would probably get a man
> arrested. That weird silence that looms over us guys is a
> black cloud of dirty/doubtful thoughts.
> It's come to my attention that everyone is searching for someone else
> who is equally as sick and twisted as themself. This is why I, for one,
> hesitate before sharing my thoughts. After all, the girl sitting next to me
> could never be more disgusting than myself. Right? Of course, I'll never
> REALLY know because I'll never REALLY share.
> Also, you girls always pry and poke at a guy's comment as if it's
> some scientific experiment gone awry. Its alright to ponder our words (a
> bit), but why do girls have to try to interpet our tone and phonetics, and
> lexicon? You women give us way too much credit, sometimes men actually mean
> what we say and nothing more.
> Another reason I hate sharing my thoughts with girls is because
> they suck. They can't build cool forts, and they're bad at dodgeball too!
> -Ryan (guys out there, please don't banish me from the fraternal
> Brotherhood of Men for divulging any of our secrets to the enemy)
>
> "kill all the blacks
> kill all the reds
> and if there's war between the sexes
> than there'll be no people left" J.Jackson
>
------------------------------
From: david stephen anderson
To: Melissa Cannon
cc: Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: All Men Are Pigs
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:24:44 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
The reason that I think all us males don't share are feelings readily is
because where taught it. Most male images in society are of rough tuff
guys who don't cry. So we, or at least I, often don't want people to
think that I might actually have feelings. It takes me a long time to
open up to people. Especially know because the last few times I've
opened up and admitted how I felt I've gotten burned. So know I'm not
planing on opening up for quite a while because I like it quite well in
my shell.
Dave
------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: All Men are Pigs
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:44:57 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961107154407.1927b594@student.anu.edu.au>
Bollocks to you all. If you wish to create an artificial division of
humanity, go on presuming that the cause of your misunderstandings and your
inability to let yourself be visible to others, is a men-women thing. Fuck,
for all I know the reason the girl doesn't understand me, the one I slept
with last night and the one who asked me this morning what "friends" means,
is the lack of foreskin I have; it's unfortunate I am circumcised because
I'm sure she would understand otherwise.....
Women are infinitely cooler than men, huh. I wouldn't use that to impress
women; they prefer us men to talk crass and dirty to them, it turns them on!
Doesn't it?
Yours by membership,
Bambang
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: All Men are Pigs
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:50:51
Message-Id: <199611071751.MAA28337@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
> Fuck,
>for all I know the reason the girl doesn't understand me, the one
I slept
>with last night and the one who asked me this morning what
>"friends" means,
>is the lack of foreskin I have;
err, lack of something...
it's unfortunate I am circumcised because
>I'm sure she would understand otherwise...
I think the whole world would understand...would make sense...would
get along better...if you had not been circumcised.
>women; they prefer us men to talk crass and dirty to them, it
turns them on! Doesn't it?
I now know far more about you than is comfortable. It puzzles me
sometimes how people can make stupid decisions--live their lives in
certain ways--and then be surprised that things turn out crappy. I
don't think MY moral code is right for everyone else, but seeing
people without any at all...a shame. Treat people how YOU would
want to be treated. Don't be too demanding. Give people space. Go
out of your way. It's really very simply folks... Women are women.
There are good and bad things that go along with that. Men are
men...same thing. If you can't deal with that and you start
thinking one sex is inherently better...time for a sex change.
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "Bambang"
Cc: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: All Men are Pigs
Date: 7 Nov 1996 09:06:14 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>>All Men are Pigs =
11/7/96
Depends on the mouth it's coming from.
Melissa
- --------------------------------------
Women are infinitely cooler than men, huh. I wouldn't use that to =
impress
women; they prefer us men to talk crass and dirty to them, it turns them =
on!
Doesn't it?
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To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
From: Bambang
Subject: Re: All Men are Pigs
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:50:31
Message-Id: <199611071750.MAA10151@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>Both sexes look pretty weak when taking a dump. 'less, of course,
you LIKE
>that sorta thing, and then it might look kinda hot.
***coughs*** um, yes...just what I was thinking?!??
I personally feel that Kevin's been watching far more than "debbie
does dallas." Bring out the Gimp...
>friends. Of course, if you ask the under-represented Lesbian
contingent
I knew I was forgetting something!
>Hate women for similar reasons....or just because they CANT get
any action
So many of the recent posts are now making sense...thanks!
> a good hard fuck. So there. Or something.
What about 'bad hard fucks'?
or good soft fucks?
or bad soft fucks?
or...
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: Kevin Paez
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Murder
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 20:42:54 -0500
Message-ID: <19961108013951.AAA16200@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
And panty-hose hanging from the shower rod, and feminine products in
the cabinet under the sink. Sorry, I got overzealous.
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: Kevin Paez
Sent: Friday, November 08, 1996 1:27 PM
To: behfar@cs.uchicago.edu
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
ps. and anyway, what would a fort be without cute curtains and
bathroom closets full of hairspray cans?
Well said, Master.
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Murder
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 20:46:00 -0500
Message-ID: <19961108014258.AAA17559@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
The worst I ever had was great!!!
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 1996 8:50 AM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
> a good hard fuck. So there. Or something.
What about 'bad hard fucks'?
or good soft fucks?
or bad soft fucks?
or...
JaY!
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: Kevin Paez <"steamer "@clearcom.net>
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Murder
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 18:29:50 -0500
Message-ID: <19961108232642.AAA15933@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
Beautifully said !!!!
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: Kevin Paez <"steamer "@clearcom.net>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 1996 11:34 PM
To: lea@sirius.com
Cc: behfar@cs.uchicago.edu; infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
I always Identified with MJ's continually featured themes of "Loss" and
"Lust", but until this last 12 months the "Loneliness" never hit me. I have
had August and September, I've come Out Of The Blue, and after examining
my behavior in college I had That Sinking Feeling. I was Infected, but a
coupla pills cleared that up and I was quickly back in action.
Now I see a whole other side of MJ, I relate closely to bits like, "I'm just
another Western guy with desires that I can't satisfy"
and I spend inordinate amounts of time in the shower.
What strikes me in MJs work now is the extremes of emotions which, when
all presented, create a balance. His pendulum swings wide. His obvious sexual
prowess and escapades create a slick slithering snake with a thin powdery
ego that puffs and tumbles into a screaming demon who just wants to once
more run his tongue along the fine silk skin adjacent to his lover's nipple,
sleep in the wet spot, and bask in her warm breath when he lays his head on
her chest and sleeps...because he is still cold blooded, and that means he is
always fearing the day when he has no sun, no light, and no love to call his
own....
..."You're Mine"....
I am lucky to have found the The. Other than the occasional Dharma talk,
nothing touches so deeply what I am than MJ's eternal truths.
Yeah, It sucks more than I had imagined, being alone, but at least
there's no one to talk during my nightly trip into "Mind Bomb"...
peace, freaks....
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Murder
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:25:52 -0400
Message-ID: <3282E080.3FFA@clearcom.net>
Both sexes look pretty weak when taking a dump. 'less, of course, you LIKE
that sorta thing, and then it might look kinda hot.
I have to say that I do not believe the dude was just trying to get some
action. This is an issue that I have encountered in myself and several male
friends. Of course, if you ask the under-represented Lesbian contingent
which gender is better, you are not often suprised at the answer, though
for obvious reasons you can be fairly Sure that is ain't just in the interest
of an orgasm....
I think alot of men, and women, find that females are better. Sure, its a
sick, weak, poisonous way to think, but is happens. Some of us males have
a difficult time thinking of a man who hasn't disappointed us. Some of us
Hate women for similar reasons....or just because they CANT get any action
by saying they like fems better, then get Pissed at their blue balls and
blame the woman. Hey, whatever. Still, we can marvel at our differences,
real or perceived, and it doesn't change the fact that we all like a good hard
fuck. So there. Or something.
------------------------------
From: Behfar Bastani-Booshehri
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:32:44 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199611071832.MAA02162@gargoyle164.cs.uchicago.edu>
the respected and revered Kevin Paez spake thusly:
> I think alot of men, and women, find that females are better. Sure, its a
> sick, weak, poisonous way to think, but is happens. Some of us males have
> a difficult time thinking of a man who hasn't disappointed us. Some of us
i've got to say that for me men are sometimes easier to get along with
because of one thing: when they say A, they usually mean A, whereas
many women say A and mean B. of course this is only my observation,
and i've met plenty of women who are not this way (fortunately), and
plus i grant that sometimes everyone says something and counts on
others' reading between the lines. but there's a stronger tendency
in women to do that. since i don't know any better, i'd say the reason
is the fear of saying what's really on their minds, which is the kind
of behavior usually attributed to males. so go figure.
- -behfar
ps. and anyway, what would a fort be without cute curtains and
bathroom closets full of hairspray cans?
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: behfar@cs.uchicago.edu
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 19:49:54 -0800
Message-ID: <3282ADE2.6E60@sirius.com>
> since i don't know any better, i'd say the reason
> is the fear of saying what's really on their minds, which is the kind
> of behavior usually attributed to males. so go figure.
>
> -behfar
>
> ps. and anyway, what would a fort be without cute curtains and
> bathroom closets full of hairspray cans?
>
>
Sounds most reasonable to me! I didn't mean to start the war of the
sexes here...I just appreciate that I seem to learn a bit about the way
men think from listening to rock and roll. This comes to mind
paricularly with mj's work, because I think he's a sensitive guy.
I think he comes "from the heart and soul" which is hard to do for OST
people , men ,women ,and anyother creatures descended from simians.
Now a good dog. They always come from the heart, or the stomach.
My dog preserves my humanity. Go figure....
Lea
ps....better go put some hairspray in the bathroom to make the men folk
feel at home.
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez <"steamer "@clearcom.net>
To: lea@sirius.com
CC: behfar@cs.uchicago.edu, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 00:34:45 -0400
Message-ID: <328409E5.551D@clearcom.net>
I always Identified with MJ's continually featured themes of "Loss" and
"Lust", but until this last 12 months the "Loneliness" never hit me. I have
had August and September, I've come Out Of The Blue, and after examining
my behavior in college I had That Sinking Feeling. I was Infected, but a
coupla pills cleared that up and I was quickly back in action.
Now I see a whole other side of MJ, I relate closely to bits like, "I'm just
another Western guy with desires that I can't satisfy"
and I spend inordinate amounts of time in the shower.
What strikes me in MJs work now is the extremes of emotions which, when
all presented, create a balance. His pendulum swings wide. His obvious sexual
prowess and escapades create a slick slithering snake with a thin powdery
ego that puffs and tumbles into a screaming demon who just wants to once
more run his tongue along the fine silk skin adjacent to his lover's nipple,
sleep in the wet spot, and bask in her warm breath when he lays his head on
her chest and sleeps...because he is still cold blooded, and that means he is
always fearing the day when he has no sun, no light, and no love to call his
own....
..."You're Mine"....
I am lucky to have found the The. Other than the occasional Dharma talk,
nothing touches so deeply what I am than MJ's eternal truths.
Yeah, It sucks more than I had imagined, being alone, but at least
there's no one to talk during my nightly trip into "Mind Bomb"...
peace, freaks....
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: behfar@cs.uchicago.edu
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Murder
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 14:27:56 -0400
Message-ID: <32837BAC.7EC5@clearcom.net>
ps. and anyway, what would a fort be without cute curtains and
bathroom closets full of hairspray cans?
Well said, Master.
------------------------------
From: david stephen anderson
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: I'm not trying to score!
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:29:34 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
There's no reason for me to try anything to impress anyone over this. I
don't know any of you in any way other then I get email from you
sometimes. My previous comment was how I really feel. I'm basically
pretty messed up. Please don't lable me as any kind of Rico Suave, that
is the farthest thing from the truth. I guess once again I can't seem to
speak my mind without getting burned in some way.
Dave
------------------------------
From: "Ian"
To: "infected"
Subject: Re: I'm not trying to score!
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2096 12:07:31 -0500
Message-Id: <199611071711.MAA18680@anshar.shadow.net>
Lighten up Dave. They were having a little fun.
- ----------
> From: david stephen anderson
> To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
> Subject: I'm not trying to score!
> Date: Thursday, November 07, 1996 10:29 AM
>
> There's no reason for me to try anything to impress anyone over this. I
> don't know any of you in any way other then I get email from you
> sometimes. My previous comment was how I really feel. I'm basically
> pretty messed up. Please don't lable me as any kind of Rico Suave, that
> is the farthest thing from the truth. I guess once again I can't seem to
> speak my mind without getting burned in some way.
>
>
> Dave
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: Ian
CC: infected
Subject: Re: I'm not trying to score!
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:44:26 -0400
Message-ID: <3283717A.1A87@clearcom.net>
OK, so Dave writes something, everyone bashes in his teeth and calls him a
sappy loser trying to snag snatch in an underhanded and totally
disrespectful manner. He replies in a markedly calm message that states
quite clearly that he is just expressing himself, and now HE needs to
lighten up? Fuck that. How about we try and listen to him with
compassion? He was not attacking or insulting anyone's way of life, he just
stated his view, which I think is both valid and sensible...
If anything Dave, Darken Down.
------------------------------
From: david stephen anderson
To: Kevin Paez
cc: Ian , infected
Subject: Re: I'm not trying to score!
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:51:57 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
Thanks for the support and advice. I've often been told I'm too nice,
but its just not me to change my manner.
Dave
On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, Kevin Paez wrote:
> OK, so Dave writes something, everyone bashes in his teeth and calls him a
> sappy loser trying to snag snatch in an underhanded and totally
> disrespectful manner. He replies in a markedly calm message that states
> quite clearly that he is just expressing himself, and now HE needs to
> lighten up? Fuck that. How about we try and listen to him with
> compassion? He was not attacking or insulting anyone's way of life, he just
> stated his view, which I think is both valid and sensible...
>
> If anything Dave, Darken Down.
>
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "david stephen anderson"
Cc: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: I'm not trying to score!
Date: 7 Nov 1996 09:14:39 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>I'm not trying to score! =
11/7/96
Don't fret about it. We still love ya, Dave.
- --------------------------------------
Date: 11/7/96 8:13 AM
To: Melissa Cannon
From: david stephen anderson
There's no reason for me to try anything to impress anyone over this. I
don't know any of you in any way other then I get email from you
sometimes. My previous comment was how I really feel. I'm basically
pretty messed up. Please don't lable me as any kind of Rico Suave, that
is the farthest thing from the truth. I guess once again I can't seem to =
speak my mind without getting burned in some way.
Dave
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Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:29:34 -0600 (CST)
From: david stephen anderson
X-Sender: dsandrsn@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: I'm not trying to score!
Message-Id:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII
------------------------------
From: "Martyn Iannece"
To: "TheThe's"
Subject: All This Useless Squabbling
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:40:09 -0500
Message-Id: <199611071834.NAA05762@ishmail.gemsoft.com>
Late, late yestreen I saw the new moon
With old moon in her arms;
And I fear, I fear, my Master dear!
We shall have a deadly storm.
Ballad of Sir Patrick Spence
I've been bemusedly watching the 'All Men Are Pigs' feud
for what seems like thirty years now. "Men are this... Women are that...
Nobody understands... Burned..." Burned? Isn't this a little archaic and
pointless? The protagonists in this little playlet just seem
to have retreated to their individual soapboxes for a good solid bout of
name-calling.
Unless (and I do suspect otherwise) you are all 15 years old with
crackling hormones and matching acne I should take this as a warning bell.
I believe you'll have a much easier time of it if you relax and treat each
other with a little humanity. Try not to see MAN or WOMAN, how about
engaging in verbal intercourse with a PERSON.
Try not to be so self-conscious. Not everyone on the planet wants to
perform a vivisection on your nether regions masquerading as romance. You
should calm down a little, appraise the situation and
act with kindness and warmth. I'm sure some of you are capable of it.
Then again, maybe you're just fucked!
mri
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martyn Iannece
Writer/Adventurer/Paranoid
"MY GOD! IT'S FULL OF STARS!!"
Gemsoft Corp.
tel: (416) 368-1552
fax: (416) 368-9682
miannece@gemsoft.com
------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: did you all know?
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:45:10 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961108134411.197fd856@student.anu.edu.au>
I received through Infected very recently a letter from Martyn. He said:
"The protagonists in this little playlet just seem to have retreated to
their individual soapboxes for a good solid bout of name-calling... I
believe you'll have a much easier time of it if you relax and treat each
other with a little humanity." I question whether there has been any name
calling whatsoever. Expressing opinions on humanity is not name-calling,
nor is believing that Dave was trying to pick-up. But despite the serious
appearance of most of his message, Martyn gave me a hint that he was just
partaking of the fun to be had on this here mailing list with the utter
profundity: "Then again, maybe you're just fucked."
Did you all know where this began? Well, as has been the case a few times
when I have ventured forth with some profoundly boring piece of dribble that
lets me procrastinate ten more minutes, I wrote about a theThe song. "could
God really be so cruel to give us feelings that can never be fulfilled.."
was how it started. I was questioning the feeling that mj was conveying in
lyrics such as "I ain't never found peace upon the breast of a girl, I ain't
never found peace with the religion of the world, I ain't never found peace
at the
bottom of a glass..." and I said at the time, that it was a feeling that I
had experienced a few years ago, but no longer. And that is still the case.
To this Behfar responded: "someday you'll come my way.. and when you put
your arms around me, i'll be looking over your shoulder for someone new" how
many times
have we been there?? *i* say what mj means is "i'll be looking over your
shoulder, BECAUSE you came my way.."
In answer to this I say to him, as I said before, I have experienced that
feeling in the past, but no longer. I know that women too experience that
feeling sometimes and that is why I don't buy into the men-women dichotomy
bullshit. Because you came my way, I discovered that I did not truly want
you, which is a symptom of the same condition. If you never came my way I
would be forever desiring you. Precisely this that I was questioning, as
was mj in his song. Why is it that some people experience this, this lack
of fulfillment when they get want they want? When Behfar said "freedom from
your heart's desires is not dullness and naught... it's stopping what those
damn desires tell you how the world *should* be, and instead dealing with
the way the world actually is... true happiness always comes when i stop
looking for it" he was responding to the experience that mj with which mj
was dealing; however, he stilled missed the point - it is in retaliation
against those feelings that are so wrong (so unsatisfactory) that you have
resolved to stop letting them tell you how the world should be, and to stop
looking for true happiness because you know that if you go on searching then
disappointment will be the end; that is disappointment because you got want
you wanted, not disappointment because you never did! And as I said from
the beginning, why is it that some people have this experience, where their
desires are so incompatible with fulfillment and satisfaction??
Anyway, back to the name-calling thing. There was another response to my
message, this time from Lea. In expressing her view of the world, she said:
"Ya know I am 40 , and most of what I know about men I learned from rock n
roll. You can't pay much attention to what they tell you on an individual
basis, from day to day, but collectively, what they sing
about gives me a glimmer to what is going on in those testosterone infused
brains." It turns out that it hit a nerve. This was a great cue for Mel
whose response "Funny, I have been doing the same thing as well. Why is
that? Guys, is there something you're afraid to tell us?", accompanied by
her "What I want to know is why do some men refuse to share all that's going
on in their mind?", started the stream of amusing and tongue-in-cheek 'All
Men are Pigs' mail. To say that we all should "relax and treat each other
with a little humanity" is to completely lose the plot of what's been going
down; but then again, wasn't Martyn being just as unserious (if there is
such a word) as the rest of us in discussing how much of a pig is a man,
with his 'maybe you're just fucked'.
Mel jump started the fingers of many men on the list. Kevin told us of
himself: "Well, we are afraid to tell you stuff because our mothers won't
let us and our Fathers are dead becaused they did tell. I learned about
women from Kiss. I learned about sexuality from 'Debbie Does Dallas'....
Perhaps true happiness lies within freedom from the hearts desires, which
includes the desire to know about the opposite sex. Give up, and experience
men around you without trying to figure them out."
In order to get in on the fun I facetiously wrote "Women are infinitely
cooler than men, huh. I wouldn't use that to impress women; they prefer us
men to talk crass and dirty to them, it turns them on! Doesn't it?" to which
I received some personal affirmations from some men out there: "cheers! FUCK
'EM ALL (if you can) but please don't tell them why! ... you'll ruin the
surprise!" and "I agree with you...Men don't hide anything any more than
women, and women are just as dumb-looking as men when they take a shit."
Melissa too saw the remark I had made in its proper light: "Depends on the
mouth it's coming from."
My mail apparently revealed too much of myself as JaY! puts it: "I now know
far more about you than is comfortable." But what did he mean when he wrote
"I think the whole world would understand...would make sense...would get
along better...if you had not been circumcised." I was attempting, if I did
not make myself too clear, to compare relate my cirumcision with the
problems I have communicatin, and was seeking thereby to elicit responses
from others on this list regarding whether they too have found that their
circumcision (men or women) has meant miscommunication. :)
Ryan at least revealed a lot about himself to us when he said: "It's come to
my attention that everyone is searching for someone else who is equally as
sick and twisted as themself.... You women give us way too much credit,
sometimes men actually mean what we say and nothing more.... Another reason
I hate sharing my thoughts with girls is because they suck. They can't build
cool forts, and they're bad at dodgeball too!"
On the other hand, Dave is a poor sod who has taken the words of the fools
on this list to heart and defended himself: "My previous comment was how I
really feel. I'm basically
pretty messed up" although I think that is one of the lamest defences I've
ever heard.
So to bring all this together, sarcasm is not so easy sometimes to 'hear'
when it's written down, nor are tongue-in-cheek comments so easy to notice
when the hand is the one giving expression to it. If the words sting, get
over them! Or alternatively, make your words soft and sweet, for one day you
may have to eat them!!!!
Naked and a bastard,
Bambang
------------------------------
From: Christian Schmalz
To: Bambang
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: did you all know?
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:59:13 +0000
Message-Id: <199611081600.RAA00493@hermes.rz.uni-sb.de>
Hi Bambang,
even if I didn't take part in the recent "discussion" I followed it
with great attention and a lot of amused inner smiles.
With your "summary" and personal conclusion you just made a great
point by holding up the mirror to a couple of us. I appreciate very
much the way you expressed it....
Cheers,
Christian
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Gaebe es das Ungerechte nicht, wuerde man die
Gerechtigkeit nicht kennen.
Heraklit
(If there was no injustice, you would not
know about justice.)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Schmalz email: c.schmalz@ids-scheer.de
Muehlenstr. 17 chsc0001@stud.uni-sb.de
66111 Saarbruecken phone: 0681/3904092
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Marc Tompkins
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: did you all know?
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:47:21 -0700
Message-ID: <3286F629.418A@earthlink.net>
Bambang wrote:
> I received through Infected very recently a letter from Martyn. He said:
> "The protagonists in this little playlet just seem to have retreated to
> their individual soapboxes for a good solid bout of name-calling... I
> believe you'll have a much easier time of it if you relax and treat each
> other with a little humanity." I question whether there has been any name
> calling whatsoever. Expressing opinions on humanity is not name-calling,
> nor is believing that Dave was trying to pick-up. But despite the serious
> appearance of most of his message, Martyn gave me a hint that he was just
> partaking of the fun to be had on this here mailing list with the utter
> profundity: "Then again, maybe you're just fucked."
...etc.
Bambang makes some excellent points.
I truly believe that anyone who takes seriously any postings in a thread
entitled "All Men Are Pigs" deserves what (s)he gets. JaY!sis H.
Christ, some people take themselves WAY TOO SERIOUSLY! And by the way,
Dave, when I said you were trying to score, I did NOT say that I thought
less of you for it!
> Did you all know where this began? Well, as has been the case a few times
> when I have ventured forth with some profoundly boring piece of dribble
> that lets me procrastinate ten more minutes, I wrote about a theThe song.
> "could God really be so cruel to give us feelings that can never be
> fulfilled.." was how it started. I was questioning the feeling that mj
> was conveying in lyrics such as "I ain't never found peace upon the breast
> of a girl, I ain't never found peace with the religion of the world, I
> ain't never found peace at the bottom of a glass..." and I said at the
> time, that it was a feeling that I had experienced a few years ago, but no
> longer. And that is still the case.
Hoo boy - a million thoughts come out of that. First of all, I've
always suspected that Matt was looking at the wrong girl or the wrong
glass... but seriously now, I really believe there are people in this
world who are not suited for happiness. (Myself included.) Peace,
contentment, happiness, whatever - they're not dependent on outside
factors, but come from inside. I remember, when Kurt Cobain died, how
everyone was asking why, why, why, would he kill himself just when
everything seemed great? I understood perfectly! If everything is
finally great and you're still miserable, what's left to live for? At
least back when you had to struggle, you could tell yourself that once
you hit the big time you'd be happy. But if your internal programming
is messed up, then you could live in Paradise and it would still be hell
to you. My personal nightmare is that one day I DO hit it big -
lottery, career, love life, whatever - and I find myself still
miserable. But heck, I still buy my ticket twice a week anyhow.
> My mail apparently revealed too much of myself as JaY! puts it: "I
> now know far more about you than is comfortable." But what did he
> mean when he wrote "I think the whole world would
> understand...would make sense...would get along better...if you
> had not been circumcised." I was attempting, if I did not make
> myself too clear, to compare relate my cirumcision with the
> problems I have communicatin, and was seeking thereby to elicit responses
> from others on this list regarding whether they too have found that their
> circumcision (men or women) has meant miscommunication. :)
Another funny thing. Circumcision has never seemed that big a deal to
me. I'm a goy, actually, so it wasn't a religious thing; it's just that
in Southern California in 1970 just about every baby boy got whacked by
default. The whole debate about whether it would have a negative impact
on sexuality later on was just a blip on the radar screen then. As a
matter of fact, I have only personally known one guy who WASN'T
circumcised (I probably know several more, but it doesn't come up in
converstaion very often and I'm one of those guys who would rather die
than look sideways while at the urinal...)
But philosophically, I'm agin it. Male circumcision doesn't seem that
big a deal to me - I definitely don't remember the pain, and I'm too
proud to admit that I might be less of a man because of it. But still,
it ought to be the child's choice, not the church's, the parents', or
the doctor's. Female "circumcision" (mutilation's a better word), on
the other hand, really makes my gorge rise. In whatever form - whether
it be an ultra-tight episiotomy (spelling?) or complete clitoral
excision, its purpose is clear - to eliminate sexual pleasure for the
woman and to remind her of her place. It is barbaric! If the woman did
it voluntarily (hell, they do worse every day at The Gauntlet and I hear
no-one complaining), well and good - I don't want to step on anyone's
religious toes here. But I've heard of very very few voluntary cases...
it's a bit like suttee, really.
At this point Dave could fairly say that I'M trying to score now.
Whatever works, baby. Truly though, I have three sisters whom I love
very much, and my world view has been shaped by that fact. Anyone who
messes with them is messing with me as well, and it's made me a pretty
rabid feminist. Of course, they STILL can't build forts worth a damn.
One last thing - favorite songs, anyone? I'm sure this comes up all the
time, but hey. My personal favorite is "Another Boy Drowning", and I
like the version on the "Solitude" EP best. I am ready to accept any
flames that may result.
- --
Marc
"Mother, I tried - please believe me
I'm doing the best that I can
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through
I'm ashamed of the person I am"
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: fsrtech@earthlink.net
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: did you all know?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 10:31:53 -0400
Message-ID: <32888A59.29F4@clearcom.net>
Long Fucking Message, dude, and really worth reading.
I like the live "Another Boy Drowning" because its got Marr.
The climax of that tune when the guitar jangle kicks in is as uplifting for me
as, say, "Where the Streets Have No Name" only When I hear it I don't think
of a bunch of frat boys in baseball caps drinking Coors light and
date-raping, saying things like "Dude, U2 and Hootie are so RAAWKIN!!!!'"
The fort thing is really interesting to me. I know its all a joke. I just think
that male-domination comes from a deep place, and it is also where the
"fort" thing is rooted. I bet alot of us laugh at some chick wielding a hammer,
much like we take a few steps closer when it's her turn to toss the pigskin.
Is it just that our experience has led us to believe they just aren't capable? Or
does an ego mechanism kick in and make us WANT them to be weak,
unskilled, and generally laughable when they appear in the house with a
blow-torch, giggling maniacally, eyes wide behind the protective visor,
nauseatingly disproportionate gloves making their Popeye forearms
cartoonish as they use us for welding practice? Or something.
I WANT to learn to throw like a girl. And I want to look good in a Dress. At
the same time, when a female fucks with me, I want to grab the compact
umbrella in my briefcase and bash their little brain in, and then go have a
beer, maybe a few Marlboro's, and then put that umbrella in the drain by
the parking lot. I guess I'll clean my briefcase, too, with bleach, because
hey, free dummy. DNA and all.
And that circumcision, by the way, is really very wrong...Choice is the
operative word here...
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: born in the new s.a.
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:31:06
Message-Id: <199611111531.KAA12423@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
Does anyone know who's talking in this song or other info on the
individual?
I hear the following samples:
"I am not a racist"
"You cannot buy a civilization"
"This is Allen Houston..."
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: born in the new s.a.
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 17:20:54
Message-Id: <199611112121.QAA15874@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
> As far as I know...and I'm probably wrong.. the speaker is
>P.W. Botha, the South African Prime Minister in the 1980's.. when
>apartheid and many other evils were rampant
thanks a lot. This is sooo much better than Dave's answer ;)
Now tell me more about the source of the recording, what it was
for, where it can be found? Anyone?
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: PJ the Character Builder
To: JaY!
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: born in the new s.a.
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:44:51 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id:
As far as I know...and I'm probably wrong.. the speaker is
P.W. Botha, the South African Prime Minister in the 1980's.. when
apartheid and many other evils were rampant
pj
______________________________________________________________________________
"I am the son and the heir... of a shyness that is criminally vulgar."-
The Smiths
________________________________________________________________________
On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, JaY! wrote:
> Does anyone know who's talking in this song or other info on the
> individual?
> I hear the following samples:
>
> "I am not a racist"
> "You cannot buy a civilization"
> "This is Allen Houston..."
>
> JaY!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> -General Email:luster@gnn.com
> -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
> -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
> -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
> ...more than you'll...ever...know
>
>
------------------------------
From: "David B. Hirsch"
To: The The list
Subject: born in the new s.a.
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 20:59:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID:
it can be found on the heartland 12" and the slow train to dawn 12". on
the heartland single, it flows right from heartland, as that song fades
into the radio repeating "state..."
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
"And I knew this pretty girl once, she was eighteen. . .maybe. What's a
year or two. And one day when she asked me if I love her, I said baby,
what's it worth to you. You look surprised, you shouldn't be, this world
is full of creeps like me."
--lyle lovett.
------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: interesting discussion
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 14:14:41 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961114141304.195fa474@student.anu.edu.au>
In case anyone is interested on the Depeche Mode mailing list -BONG- there
has been very recent discussion of opening acts for DM, both the bad ones
and the good ones. TheThe came up, and overall those who were at the
concert have liked the performance, with the qualification that it was a
pity Johnny Marr wasn't there. Another point of interest was someone's
question of why there was so much pot being smoked at the concert?
Bambang
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: Marc Tompkins
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: interesting discussion
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 19:08:01 -0500
Message-ID: <19961115000421.AAA2580@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
If you want to see an excellent performance by the The, you need to
travel to the smaller venues, if such exist in CA. I have seen Matt
tour both times in Atlanta, where the maximum capacity of the venue
was only 300 people. Got there 1.5 hours early to get a good spot
(General Admission), and ended up both times 4 feet from the stage. I
could see Matt sweating I was so close. Of course being that close
the stage there are no seats, standing room only, but hell I would
stand for two days if he would perform for that length of time.
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: Marc Tompkins
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 1996 2:44 AM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: interesting discussion
Bambang wrote:
>
> In case anyone is interested on the Depeche Mode mailing list -BONG- there
> has been very recent discussion of opening acts for DM, both the bad ones
> and the good ones. TheThe came up, and overall those who were at the
> concert have liked the performance, with the qualification that it was a
> pity Johnny Marr wasn't there. Another point of interest was someone's
> question of why there was so much pot being smoked at the concert?
the only times I've seen the The, they were the opening band for shows I
couldn't give a rodent's pelvis for. (New Order, DM - like both bands
but not recently.) I (halfway) saw the DM show at the Forum here in
LA. Didn't realize it till we arrived, but our seats were actually
behind the stage - and DM had this stupid scrim up to hide behind for
their first song. tT played on the lower stage out front, so we
couldn't see them at all and could barely hear them. So we spent the
whole show circulating the Forum, trying to get a good view/listen and
getting moved along by fascist security types. I heard (but not from a
trusted source - yet) that tT may have played "Another Boy Drowning",
which I would love to see live - but we were stuck outside the building
trying to make an end run. What makes it worst of all is that most of
the wankers who came to see DM didn't even show up until after Matt
finished, so there were plenty of empty seats if we could have reached
them (unfortunately I'm no good at being sneaky.)
After Matt left we went back to our lousy seats, where about the only
thing we could see was Martin's chainmail skirt swaying as he played
that yoke of a synth. I actually caught a nap during some of the new
songs; they finally played "Blasphemous Rumours" and "Stripped", and
then we bailed.
I want to see a real, live, whole the The show so bad I can taste it!
When is Matt gonna get off his dead arse and tour?
- --
Marc
"Mother, I tried - please believe me
I'm doing the best that I can
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through
I'm ashamed of the person I am"
------------------------------
From: Marc Tompkins
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: interesting discussion
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 00:44:43 -0700
Message-ID: <328ACDEB.22@earthlink.net>
Bambang wrote:
>
> In case anyone is interested on the Depeche Mode mailing list -BONG- there
> has been very recent discussion of opening acts for DM, both the bad ones
> and the good ones. TheThe came up, and overall those who were at the
> concert have liked the performance, with the qualification that it was a
> pity Johnny Marr wasn't there. Another point of interest was someone's
> question of why there was so much pot being smoked at the concert?
the only times I've seen the The, they were the opening band for shows I
couldn't give a rodent's pelvis for. (New Order, DM - like both bands
but not recently.) I (halfway) saw the DM show at the Forum here in
LA. Didn't realize it till we arrived, but our seats were actually
behind the stage - and DM had this stupid scrim up to hide behind for
their first song. tT played on the lower stage out front, so we
couldn't see them at all and could barely hear them. So we spent the
whole show circulating the Forum, trying to get a good view/listen and
getting moved along by fascist security types. I heard (but not from a
trusted source - yet) that tT may have played "Another Boy Drowning",
which I would love to see live - but we were stuck outside the building
trying to make an end run. What makes it worst of all is that most of
the wankers who came to see DM didn't even show up until after Matt
finished, so there were plenty of empty seats if we could have reached
them (unfortunately I'm no good at being sneaky.)
After Matt left we went back to our lousy seats, where about the only
thing we could see was Martin's chainmail skirt swaying as he played
that yoke of a synth. I actually caught a nap during some of the new
songs; they finally played "Blasphemous Rumours" and "Stripped", and
then we bailed.
I want to see a real, live, whole the The show so bad I can taste it!
When is Matt gonna get off his dead arse and tour?
- --
Marc
"Mother, I tried - please believe me
I'm doing the best that I can
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through
I'm ashamed of the person I am"
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: interesting discussion
Date: 14 Nov 1996 16:52:59 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>>interesting discussion =
11/14/96
Just to throw in my two cents (as always). The last time I saw MJ was in =
1993 at a Weenie Roast. Small, intimate group of about 15,000 at Irvine =
Meadows.
I don't see him playing the Coach House anytime soon (OC shut-ins need =
only reply). Marc, you're from around here. Concur?
- --------------------------------------
Date: 11/14/96 4:43 PM
To: Melissa Cannon
From: Vonn F. Campbell
If you want to see an excellent performance by the The, you need to =
travel to the smaller venues, if such exist in CA. I have seen Matt tour =
both times in Atlanta, where the maximum capacity of the venue was only =
300 people. Got there 1.5 hours early to get a good spot (General =
Admission), and ended up both times 4 feet from the stage. I could see =
Matt sweating I was so close. Of course being that close the stage there =
are no seats, standing room only, but hell I would stand for two days if =
he would perform for that length of time.
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: Marc Tompkins
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 1996 2:44 AM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: interesting discussion
Bambang wrote:
>
> In case anyone is interested on the Depeche Mode mailing list -BONG- =
there
> has been very recent discussion of opening acts for DM, both the bad =
ones
> and the good ones. TheThe came up, and overall those who were at the
> concert have liked the performance, with the qualification that it was =
a
> pity Johnny Marr wasn't there. Another point of interest was someone's
> question of why there was so much pot being smoked at the concert?
the only times I've seen the The, they were the opening band for shows I
couldn't give a rodent's pelvis for. (New Order, DM - like both bands
but not recently.) I (halfway) saw the DM show at the Forum here in
LA. Didn't realize it till we arrived, but our seats were actually
behind the stage - and DM had this stupid scrim up to hide behind for
their first song. tT played on the lower stage out front, so we
couldn't see them at all and could barely hear them. So we spent the
whole show circulating the Forum, trying to get a good view/listen and
getting moved along by fascist security types. I heard (but not from a
trusted source - yet) that tT may have played "Another Boy Drowning",
which I would love to see live - but we were stuck outside the building
trying to make an end run. What makes it worst of all is that most of
the wankers who came to see DM didn't even show up until after Matt
finished, so there were plenty of empty seats if we could have reached
them (unfortunately I'm no good at being sneaky.)
After Matt left we went back to our lousy seats, where about the only
thing we could see was Martin's chainmail skirt swaying as he played
that yoke of a synth. I actually caught a nap during some of the new
songs; they finally played "Blasphemous Rumours" and "Stripped", and
then we bailed.
I want to see a real, live, whole the The show so bad I can taste it!
When is Matt gonna get off his dead arse and tour?
- --
Marc
"Mother, I tried - please believe me
I'm doing the best that I can
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through
I'm ashamed of the person I am"
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 19:08:01 -0500
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: Marc Tompkins
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: interesting discussion
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
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------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: alone and embracing it
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 02:14:35 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961115021253.1d8f9da4@student.anu.edu.au>
I have a friend, a friend who finally admitted to me that she is lonely.
She was trying her best to describe that feeling, which had broken the dam
within her, and said that I knew what it was (as I had early on in our
friendship spoken of it with her). I was led to think of mj's songs and his
remarkable competence at telling his story, his story of the loneliness that
lurks within him; yet it has never seemed to me that this feeling was bad, a
symptom of inhumanity, a sign that he had failed as a human. I wonder how
long it's been that my friend has admitted this feeling; it always appeared
that she saw it as something to be avoided, an undesirable, a taint on the
human soul, which if experienced, must be hidden and repressed, and if
acknowledged, the beginning of the end... I think that mj, as I do, views
this feeling as all too human, and hence, acceptable - a feeling which once
accepted, is to be supplimented (for want of a better word) with pleasurable
human companionship. Our friends may remove this feeling, may lessen it,
what have you; but fundamentally and at the end of the day, it is our nature
to be alone in this world and so it is mistaken to attempt to hide from that
fact. Perhaps it is that feeling which creates the desires that can never
be satisfied: one who disobeys nature is in truth seeking the unreal and, as
a consequence, finds not what they were looking for. All this I write in an
attempt to clarify the thoughts that abound inside me, and with
Constitutional Law once more my companion late into the night, I need a
clear mind and a calm heart. Just as an aside, for interest sake, in
Indonesia the thing we refer to in English as the heart (as I did above),
that is, the seat of our emotions, is refered to as the liver. In saying
that, the Indonesians do not physically associate their emotions with the
organ, it is merely the same word - just as in English, unless I am total
ignoramous, the emotional heart is not the same heart as the one that pumps
our blood. Metaphors, you see......"His obvious sexual prowess and
escapades create a slick slithering snake with a thin powdery ego that puffs
and tumbles into a screaming demon who just wants to once more run his
tongue along the fine silk skin adjacent to his lover's nipple, sleep in the
wet spot, and bask in her warm breath when he lays his head on her chest and
sleeps...because he is still cold blooded, and that means he is always
fearing the day when he has no sun, no light, and no love to call his
own..."(quoting Kevin Paez)
The flip side to acknowledging that one is alone in this world is this: "It
sucks more than I had imagined, being alone, but at least there's no one to
talk during my nightly trip into 'Mind Bomb'..."(Kevin again).
Without further tripe I send this.
Bambang
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: "Melissa Cannon"
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: alone and embracing it
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 19:00:23 -0500
Message-ID: <19961114235643.AAA27750@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
Nothing wrong with being alone. I find I do my by best soul searching
while sitting in the woods, listening to nature. Hell, I have even
solved some the world's problems and written a few songs, in my head
of course.
You are right Melissa,
Lovers, friends, and mates seem to appear when you least expect it.
Good solution/advice.
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 1996 3:05 PM
To: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: alone and embracing it
RE>alone and embracing it 11/14/=
96
Seems as if the masses these days are suffering from bouts of melancholy.=
All I can say is, "Get over it!"
Loneliness will only invade your soul if you choose to let it. There's no=
thing wrong with being by yourself. In fact, I treasure the quiet moment=
s, myself. Solitary confinement (by choice) grants an opportunity to refl=
ect on the day's events and perhaps into tomorrow's fate. Some call this =
meditation. I call it living by yourself (and I like it!).
I guess if one is not alone by choice than lonesomeness can creep in. But=
are we talking about lack of companionship altogether or scarcity of a s=
ignificant other? With billions of folks on this planet, I find it hard t=
o believe that anyone can really be alone. I don't suppose any of you are=
hermits out there? And if you were, than why would you be on an e-mail l=
ist? Well, if you don't believe there is anyone out there to converse wit=
h, you could buy a dog. They're always friendly.
Now... if you are missing a mate, than that is different story. But we al=
l go through the phase. Flirt a little. Make new friends. Whatever... I d=
on't care. More than likely the slump won't last that long and you'll be =
happily waking up next to a new lover again. I always find that someone e=
nters my life when I stop fretting about not having a beau. (Hmm, maybe I=
should follow my own advice.)
So, anyway, that's my solution. Try it. It might work.
Melissa
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: alone and embracing it
Date: 14 Nov 1996 12:05:17 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>alone and embracing it =
11/14/96
Seems as if the masses these days are suffering from bouts of melancholy. =
All I can say is, "Get over it!"
Loneliness will only invade your soul if you choose to let it. There's not=
hing wrong with being by yourself. In fact, I treasure the quiet =
moments, myself. Solitary confinement (by choice) grants an opportunity =
to reflect on the day's events and perhaps into tomorrow's fate. Some =
call this meditation. I call it living by yourself (and I like it!).
I guess if one is not alone by choice than lonesomeness can creep in. But =
are we talking about lack of companionship altogether or scarcity of a =
significant other? With billions of folks on this planet, I find it hard =
to believe that anyone can really be alone. I don't suppose any of you =
are hermits out there? And if you were, than why would you be on an =
e-mail list? Well, if you don't believe there is anyone out there to =
converse with, you could buy a dog. They're always friendly.
Now... if you are missing a mate, than that is different story. But we =
all go through the phase. Flirt a little. Make new friends. Whatever... I =
don't care. More than likely the slump won't last that long and you'll be =
happily waking up next to a new lover again. I always find that someone =
enters my life when I stop fretting about not having a beau. (Hmm, maybe =
I should follow my own advice.)
So, anyway, that's my solution. Try it. It might work.
Melissa
------------------------------
From: Huck
To: Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: alone and embracing it
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 20:37:26 +0100
Message-ID: <328B74F6.4136@wwonline.com>
"I live in a solitude which is painful in youth but delicious in
the years of maturity."
Written by, IMO, one on the greatest and unoticed philosophical
minds of our time.
We all know him as the greatest mind our our time.
Must I have to cite the author?
jason
------------------------------
From: "DOUG H WALKER"
To:
Subject: re: RE: alone and embracing it
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 23:02:05 PST
Message-Id:
Being alone and being lonely are two completely different things.
Some of my most lonesome moments have occured when surrounded by
family, friends, or coworkers. On the other hand, I'm rarely lonely
when left alone with my thoughts.
- -walker
------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: lonely and lost
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 02:13:13 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961118021058.19777cd6@student.anu.edu.au>
he he he he he he he......
Lonely, oh lonely, I'm so absorbed in my loneliness that all I can do is
tell this damn screen of mine and then send it to you people who will,
instead of being good listeners, be incredibly insensitive by offering
antidotes to my loneliness. It just amplifies my loneliness - a sign once
again that people don't understand me, they don't realise that my reason for
talking about how alone I feel is that I want their sympathy, not the
obvious antedotes that I know oh so well. Of course I could get over it,
but don't you see (it's obvious you don't) that I relish my loneliness, that
I don't want it to end, that it is something I value for better and for worse.
Someone once said: "If the world was an orange, it would be too small....."
and I say to that: if my soul was an orange, it would be turning blue.....
Enough of this crap. Apparently a lot of people on the DM mailing list, saw
theThe when they were support for DM in 1993 in USA. Although some said
that they like theThe, the performance put on were rather abismal and
uninspired. Is this an impartial judgement of theThe playing support? One
person suggested that the reason theThe were unimpressive was that the music
was too soft, that it needed to be way louder. There was also a story of
how one girl met an ex-drummer of theThe, the one who joined Stabbing
Westward (I think?) after leaving the theThe line up. (How's that, 3 the's
in a row? Put that through the spelling check!) I wonder though how theThe
chose to appear as support for DM? Does anyone know? I think that it was a
disservice to mj and his mates, and to all his fans; theThe is mature enough
to have its own show and its own crowd. What was the story behind that tour?
Could God really be so cruel to give me two hands and lots of time.
Bambang
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: Bambang
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: lonely and lost
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 11:09:48 -0500
Message-ID: <19961117160611.AAA13669@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
I agree, a complete and total disservice to mj, his mates, and to his fans.
- ----------
From: Bambang
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 1996 10:13 AM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: lonely and lost
Apparently a lot of people on the DM mailing list, saw
theThe when they were support for DM in 1993 in USA. Although some said
that they like theThe, the performance put on were rather abismal and
uninspired. Is this an impartial judgement of theThe playing support? One
person suggested that the reason theThe were unimpressive was that the music
was too soft, that it needed to be way louder. There was also a story of
how one girl met an ex-drummer of theThe, the one who joined Stabbing
Westward (I think?) after leaving the theThe line up. (How's that, 3 the's
in a row? Put that through the spelling check!) I wonder though how theThe
chose to appear as support for DM? Does anyone know? I think that it was a
disservice to mj and his mates, and to all his fans; theThe is mature enough
to have its own show and its own crowd. What was the story behind that tour?
Could God really be so cruel to give me two hands and lots of time.
Bambang
------------------------------
From: Patrick Stewart
To: Bambang
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: lonely and lost
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:47:06 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id:
On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Bambang wrote:
> he he he he he he he......
>
> Lonely, oh lonely, I'm so absorbed in my loneliness that all I can do is
> tell this damn screen of mine and then send it to you people who will,
> instead of being good listeners, be incredibly insensitive by offering
> antidotes to my loneliness. It just amplifies my loneliness - a sign once
> again that people don't understand me, they don't realise that my reason for
> talking about how alone I feel is that I want their sympathy, not the
> obvious antedotes that I know oh so well. Of course I could get over it,
> but don't you see (it's obvious you don't) that I relish my loneliness, that
> I don't want it to end, that it is something I value for better and for worse.
OK, call me confused.... but if you want sympathy for your loneliness,
wouldn't that mean that we would tell you about our loneliness... but in
so doing, we would ameliorate your loneliness by communicating with you
(one of those "obvious antidotes"), which you don't want. So, in order
to comply with what you want, ie sympathy, we have to not talk with you.
So our sympathy would be to ignore you? Okey Dokey... (sorry for
e-mailing this then)
>
> Someone once said: "If the world was an orange, it would be too small....."
> and I say to that: if my soul was an orange, it would be turning blue.....
>
Well, if my soul was an orange, it would be a sweet juicy seedless Valencia
Orange hanging ripe in the midday sun, ready to be plucked and devoured
by a sweet smelling sundress clad woman with a book of poetry by Robert
Burns. And I would rejoice in my impending demise!
Patrick... in dire need of sunshine to make me happy.
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Regarding the DM tour...
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 17:53:16
Message-Id: <199611172153.QAA02682@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>I saw one other person with a
>the The shirt (maybe it was Dave Hirsch :) )
he reportedly has a "the The" van as well...
>the The only played for like 45 minutes... and it was good...
musically,
>singing-wise, instrument-wise they were on... mj seemed inspired
enough
>for me..
saw the Chicago leg of this tour.
I went with two other people, from Bloomington Indiana, and without
any tickets!!!
Showed up about half an hour before the show and got scalper
tickets--seventh row.
We were the only ones standing for the The and so many people were
bitching that they got security to come over and tell us to sit
down!!!!! ah!!!!!
We quickly, and rudely, told them to "fuck off."
Matt def. noticed and apprecited us (...at one point telling me
that I was indeed a bigger, better fan than Dave).
The set was quite spirited. Matt running from one side of the stage
(a big one) to the other. Harmonica dude was being crazy too. Too
bad Johnny wasn't there ;)
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Regarding the DM tour...
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 18:35:45 -0500
Message-ID: <19961117233207.AAA3865@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
Yea, screw the people bitching and whining behind you because you are
standing in the presence of a great artist performing on the stage.
Hell, it IS a concert, what was their problem?
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 1996 12:53 PM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Regarding the DM tour...
>I saw one other person with a
>the The shirt (maybe it was Dave Hirsch :) )
he reportedly has a "the The" van as well...
>the The only played for like 45 minutes... and it was good...
musically,
>singing-wise, instrument-wise they were on... mj seemed inspired
enough
>for me..
saw the Chicago leg of this tour.
I went with two other people, from Bloomington Indiana, and without
any tickets!!!
Showed up about half an hour before the show and got scalper
tickets--seventh row.
We were the only ones standing for the The and so many people were
bitching that they got security to come over and tell us to sit
down!!!!! ah!!!!!
We quickly, and rudely, told them to "fuck off."
Matt def. noticed and apprecited us (...at one point telling me
that I was indeed a bigger, better fan than Dave).
The set was quite spirited. Matt running from one side of the stage
(a big one) to the other. Harmonica dude was being crazy too. Too
bad Johnny wasn't there ;)
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Re: Regarding the DM tour...
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 17:31:25 -0500
Message-ID: <19961118222727.AAA28210@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
You are so correct, a large venue does not compliment mj. His music
sounds so much better in a small club.
Looking forward to the next show,
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: "DOUG H WALKER"
Sent: Monday, November 18, 1996 1:41 AM
To:
Subject: re: Re: Regarding the DM tour...
I saw theThe open for DM in Minneapolis. MJ put on a GREAT show, and
Jim Fitting was incredible on the harmonica, but most of the teenagers
there to see DM were talking, yelling, etc., paying no attention to
the stage. Also, such a big venue doesn't suit theThe. Much of the
intimacy of the music, and subtleties of MJ's voice were lost as the
music bounced around the rafters of the Target Center. (This may
explain some of the negative comments on the DM mailing list.) My
wife and I left before DM started, passing thousands of kids still
arriving to the arena. I felt somewhat vindicated the next morning
when the local Minneapolis paper gave theThe raves, and DM a less than
mediocre review.
- -walker
------------------------------
From: "PJ... Samurai of the 5 Flowers"
To: Infected
Subject: Regarding the DM tour...
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 14:36:13 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id:
I saw the theThe/DM tour... in Cleveland. I saw one other person with a
theThe shirt (maybe it was Dave Hirsch :) )..and I disagree with what
people have said...at least from the Cleveland show..
the The only played for like 45 minutes... and it was good... musically,
singing-wise, instrument-wise they were on... mj seemed inspired enough
for me.. I know the people around weren't too impressed... no glitz no
glamor, no nothing... They were shocked that all they did was play music..
not the big,theatrical production DM put on.. at the expense of musical
integrity.. I was a DM fan at the time.. but let me tell you.. I was a
hell of a lot more impressed with the The then Depeche mode
Just my two cents worth
pj
______________________________________________________________________________
"SPOON!"- The Tick
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: "DOUG H WALKER"
To:
Subject: re: Re: Regarding the DM tour...
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 96 22:41:18 PST
Message-Id:
I saw theThe open for DM in Minneapolis. MJ put on a GREAT show, and
Jim Fitting was incredible on the harmonica, but most of the teenagers
there to see DM were talking, yelling, etc., paying no attention to
the stage. Also, such a big venue doesn't suit theThe. Much of the
intimacy of the music, and subtleties of MJ's voice were lost as the
music bounced around the rafters of the Target Center. (This may
explain some of the negative comments on the DM mailing list.) My
wife and I left before DM started, passing thousands of kids still
arriving to the arena. I felt somewhat vindicated the next morning
when the local Minneapolis paper gave theThe raves, and DM a less than
mediocre review.
- -walker
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Q:
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:34:36
Message-Id: <199611172335.SAA02305@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
more questions:
1) ever listened to JUST the surround sound encoding of "Cold Spell
Ahead" ? It's all fucked up at the 0:32 mark.
2) I got the UK version of Infected on CD, about a month ago. I got
it for the 12" versions, that are bonus tracks. But I just found
something more:
- -there is 'infected' (4:48) on the US copy.
- -there is 'infected 12" version" (6:12) on UK
...and there's 'infected' (4:31) on the UK
they are all different...why aren't they labeled as such?
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: KARMA VOWELL
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: dm and the the
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 9:52:30 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <961118095230.22b9336a@centum.utulsa.edu>
i saw the show in salt lake. i will admit that i was going to see dm. i
didn't even know that the the was playing until i got there, but when i found
out i was ecstatic! my friends and i tried to enjoy the show, but we were
also the victims of bitchings and security guards. some people just have
no taste!
KARMA
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: dm and the the
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 17:36:00 -0500
Message-ID: <19961118223202.AAA222@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
No taste and no class!
Vonn "Devo"
- ----------
From: KARMA VOWELL
Sent: Monday, November 18, 1996 10:52 AM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: dm and the the
i saw the show in salt lake. i will admit that i was going to see dm. i
didn't even know that the the was playing until i got there, but when i found
out i was ecstatic! my friends and i tried to enjoy the show, but we were
also the victims of bitchings and security guards. some people just have
no taste!
KARMA
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: dm and the the
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:02:13
Message-Id: <199611190203.VAA26222@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>Kevin Paez wrote:
>> I remember when ...
>What the....?
>thanks Pez-man, it was vivid!
>Ahhh! now I see the connection with the thread now!!!!
>jr
the "infected" list's finest moment to date...
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: KARMA VOWELL
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: dm and the the
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:12:15 -0400
Message-ID: <3291EA6F.2D13@clearcom.net>
I remember when I went to lollapalooza in Dallas when the Beastie
Boys and Pumpkins were on the bill.
It was a two show event, Saturday and Sunday. The plans were for
just a Sunday show but they sold out and added the preceding
Saturday.
I worked for a local Radio station handing out bumper stickers and
schmoozing and stuff. After my shift it was still early. I think the
Breeders were on, encouraging high doses of chemical intake. I
ate some acid and had a few beers, some marijuana, a valium, a cup
of coffee, and maybe some kind of fish paralyzer.
Suffice it to say a had a severe case of Perma-Grin.
Anyway, when The sky exploded and lightning tore into its own
show, George Clinton was up there kicking it. The Whole crowd
was up dancing on the lawn, and screaming wildly. It was kind of
like the last Woodstock, only less poseur. Sure, you had Frat boys
sliding down the muddy hill, but the funk was so deep and skanky
it didn't matter.
Incredible time.
The Sunday show was sunny. The crowd was all little kids that had
snagged tickets with Mom's credit card or skipped school to go
stand in line. When George Clinton came on, Nobody stood at all.
Zero. Except me and my friend. And we kept dancing, even though
the kids around us were scoffing and thought that Clinton had
ripped off Snoop's "Bow wow wow yippieyo yippieyay" bit (as
annoying as it is I think snoop should have written it).
George noticed us and thanked us. He rules.
I have been in amateur performance situations where the crowd
is poorly behaved or inconsiderate. I have also been in the crowd
that is misbehaving. All I know is that its a great feeling when
some asshole gets dragged out by his feet by the security force,
face down, his teeth cracking and falling out, blood trails behind
steaming with his bilous cursing, whether he be the asshole that
was performing or the asshole who keeps bumping into me and
spilling his beer on my socks, spitting his fucking trash shit
copenhagen on the floor for my girlfriend to slip on.
------------------------------
From: Huck
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: dm and the the
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:05:45 +0100
Message-ID: <32908959.781B@wwonline.com>
Kevin Paez wrote:
>
> I remember when ...
What the....?
thanks Pez-man, it was vivid!
Ahhh! now I see the connection with the thread now!!!!
jr
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: really?
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:56:37
Message-Id: <199611181958.OAA03936@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>From: Kevin Paez
>I remember when I went to lollapalooza in Dallas when the Beastie
>Boys and Pumpkins were on the bill.
>It was a two show event, Saturday and Sunday. The plans were for
>just a Sunday show but they sold out and added the preceding
>Saturday.
>I worked for a local Radio station handing out bumper stickers and
>schmoozing and stuff. After my shift it was still early. I think
the
>Breeders were on, encouraging high doses of chemical intake. I
>ate some acid and had a few beers, some marijuana, a valium, a cup
>of coffee, and maybe some kind of fish paralyzer.
>Suffice it to say a had a severe case of Perma-Grin.
>
>Anyway, when The sky exploded and lightning tore into its own
>show, George Clinton was up there kicking it. The Whole crowd
>was up dancing on the lawn, and screaming wildly. It was kind of
>like the last Woodstock, only less poseur. Sure, you had Frat boys
>sliding down the muddy hill, but the funk was so deep and skanky
>it didn't matter.
>Incredible time.
>
>The Sunday show was sunny. The crowd was all little kids that had
>snagged tickets with Mom's credit card or skipped school to go
>stand in line. When George Clinton came on, Nobody stood at all.
>Zero. Except me and my friend. And we kept dancing, even though
>the kids around us were scoffing and thought that Clinton had
>ripped off Snoop's "Bow wow wow yippieyo yippieyay" bit (as
>annoying as it is I think snoop should have written it).
>George noticed us and thanked us. He rules.
>I have been in amateur performance situations where the crowd
>is poorly behaved or inconsiderate. I have also been in the crowd
>that is misbehaving. All I know is that its a great feeling when
>some asshole gets dragged out by his feet by the security force,
>face down, his teeth cracking and falling out, blood trails behind
>steaming with his bilous cursing, whether he be the asshole that
>was performing or the asshole who keeps bumping into me and
>spilling his beer on my socks, spitting his fucking trash shit
>copenhagen on the floor for my girlfriend to slip on.
IMHO, I think Kevin was havin' a lil "acid, a few beers, some
marijuana, a valium, a cup of coffee, and maybe some kind of fish
paralyzer" when he was typing this message.
Though, his posts have been the best this list has seen in recent
times (barring someone's random rants and flames).
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: santiago zorzopulos
To: infected
Subject: DM and the The
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:27:02 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
I saw the The for the first time during their tour with DM in
Champaign-Urbana.
Wow
I fell in love with mj so quickly, after that I was pretty sure I had a
favorite band. And it seems it wasn't a passing infatuation, because four
years later I still haven't found anything to top him.
however, I was with a group of DM fans that thought the The sucked. They
have no taste, and I don't hang around them anymore.
But here is the story that will tear your heart to pieces:
After the show, we(e and my friends) where in the parking lot getting
ready to leave. I saw this guy I knew from some of the shows in the area
I'd been to. He was a bootlegger, and insider. He always knew what was
up, when bands were playing. The whole nine yards. Anyway, he gives us a
tip, which hotel DM and the The where staying at. We drove out there just
in time to see the tour bus leaving. And after following it for about ten
minutes, they got on the freeway and disappeared into the night.
sad but true...
Santiago Zorzopulos
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu, lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
Subject: Fwd: (Fac33) Johnny & drugs
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:13:52
Message-Id: <199611191614.LAA17427@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
FYI...from the Ceremony list:
>Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:07:12 -0400
>From: jas@media.mit.edu
>Sender: owner-ceremony@monkey.org
>To: ceremony@monkey.org
>Subject: (Fac33) Johnny & drugs
>
>
>Re: the recent thread on Johnny Marr's drug use...Matt Johnson
(of The
>The) had this to say about their work on the album Mind Bomb's
opening
>track:
>
>"...I filled Johnny up with drugs and said: 'This is Satan meets
Jesus'.
>What he came up with was exactly what I wanted..."
>
>Just another data point...
>
>
>-------
>+ Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list?
>+ Email majordomo@monkey.org with "info ceremony" in the message.
>+ To talk to a person, send mail to ceremony-owner@monkey.org.
>+ Digest archives are at
http://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/digests
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: Kevin
To: "JaY!"
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu, lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: (Fac33) Johnny & drugs
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:56:48 -0400
Message-ID: <32945FA0.6B88@clearcom.net>
In the '90 Johnny Marr feature story in Guitar Player Magazine, Johnny
says that Matt told him he wanted "Jesus Christ Meets the devil."
Johnny replied,"But Matt, I'm just some scruff from Manchester and this
is just a piece of wood with some strings tied to it!"
Johnny Marr is a nifty kid.
He also says that the wailing sounds in the background were just him with
"lots of wine" playing through a delay from a TC 2290 into a reverb
combo.Or something. He never mentioned lots of drugs. I wonder of he
would come clean now?
------------------------------
From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: mj Birthday
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 96 19:21:25 -0500
Message-ID: <19961120001720.AAA10673@CAMPBELLV.CRYOVAC.COM>
Does anyone know the date of mj birthday? August ??, 1961
Vonn "Devo"
------------------------------
From: Richard
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: mj Birthday
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:33:52 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961121233619.24af3140@pop.uniserve.com>
MJ's B day is a mere two days after mine. How big a fan does that make me?
richard
At 06:26 PM 11/19/96 -0700, you wrote:
>> RE>mj Birthday 11/19/96
>>
>> I believe it's August 15, 1961.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Date: 11/19/96 5:03 PM
>> To: Melissa Cannon
>> From: Vonn F. Campbell
>> Does anyone know the date of mj birthday? August ??, 1961
>>
>> Vonn "Devo"
>
>Hey, that's my mom's birthday!... does that make me a bigger fan than Dave
>Hirsch?...
>
>Yan
>
"Join Hands...Bake Phallic Cake"
-- Richard Baer --
------------------------------
From: ywong@enme.ucalgary.ca (Yan Wong)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: mj Birthday
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 18:26:53 -0700
Message-Id: <199611200126.SAA16352@enme-p.enme>
> RE>mj Birthday 11/19/96
>
> I believe it's August 15, 1961.
>
> --------------------------------------
> Date: 11/19/96 5:03 PM
> To: Melissa Cannon
> From: Vonn F. Campbell
> Does anyone know the date of mj birthday? August ??, 1961
>
> Vonn "Devo"
Hey, that's my mom's birthday!... does that make me a bigger fan than Dave
Hirsch?...
Yan
------------------------------
From: "David B. Hirsch"
To: The The list
Subject: Re: mj Birthday
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:52:02 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID:
why does my name get dropped so much on this list?
>
> Hey, that's my mom's birthday!... does that make me a bigger fan than Dave
> Hirsch?...
>
> Yan
>
------------------------------
From: Jan Wirken
To: "David B. Hirsch"
Cc: The The list
Subject: Re: mj Birthday
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 07:50:42 +0100 (MET)
Message-Id:
Maybe you're an exapmle for every The The fan.
Maybe you're popular.
Maybe we don't know the others.
Maybe we're just stupid.
btw:
Maybe there's a new The The Album next year.
Maybe not.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'I'll never get out of this world alive', Hank Williams
E-mail: jwir00@iris-bv.nl
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, David B. Hirsch wrote:
> why does my name get dropped so much on this list?
>
>
>
> >
> > Hey, that's my mom's birthday!... does that make me a bigger fan than Dave
> > Hirsch?...
> >
> > Yan
> >
>
>
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: mj Birthday
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 01:01:19
Message-Id: <199611200502.AAA28167@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>why does my name get dropped so much on this list?
>>
>> Hey, that's my mom's birthday!... does that make me a bigger fan
>>than Dave Hirsch?...
PURE love.
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "Vonn F. Campbell"
Cc: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: mj Birthday
Date: 19 Nov 1996 17:05:31 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>mj Birthday =
11/19/96
I believe it's August 15, 1961.
- --------------------------------------
Date: 11/19/96 5:03 PM
To: Melissa Cannon
From: Vonn F. Campbell
Does anyone know the date of mj birthday? August ??, 1961
Vonn "Devo"
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From: "Vonn F. Campbell"
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------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: DH's birthday
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:59:21
Message-Id: <199611202001.PAA03970@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
What's important here is that we find out what Dave's birthday is.
Something like April 1, 1942...?
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Ian"
To: "infected"
Subject: Re: DH's birthday
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2096 02:10:45 -0500
Message-Id: <199611200713.CAA20714@anshar.shadow.net>
Or the fact that you exude such perkiness and joy in your replies º).
- ----------
> From: JaY!
> To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
> Subject: Re: mj Birthday
> Date: Tuesday, November 19, 1996 8:01 PM
>
>
> >why does my name get dropped so much on this list?
>
> >>
> >> Hey, that's my mom's birthday!... does that make me a bigger fan
> >>than Dave Hirsch?...
>
> PURE love.
>
> JaY!
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> -General Email:luster@gnn.com
> -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
> -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
> -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
> ...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: steamer@clearcom.net
Cc: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Fwd- (Fac33) Johnny & d
Date: 20 Nov 1996 09:10:55 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>>Fwd: (Fac33) Johnny & drugs =
11/20/96
Actually Johnny did come clean. In the October issue of RAYGUN there's an =
interview with him and his little friend, Bernard.
If I get the time, I may post a few choice words. If not, then I won't.
Ha.
Mel
- --------------------------------------
Date: 11/20/96 8:09 AM
To: Melissa Cannon
From: steamer@clearcom.net
In the '90 Johnny Marr feature story in Guitar Player Magazine, Johnny
says that Matt told him he wanted "Jesus Christ Meets the devil."
Johnny replied,"But Matt, I'm just some scruff from Manchester and this
is just a piece of wood with some strings tied to it!"
Johnny Marr is a nifty kid.
He also says that the wailing sounds in the background were just him =
with
"lots of wine" playing through a delay from a TC 2290 into a reverb
combo.Or something. He never mentioned lots of drugs. I wonder of he
would come clean now?
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Message-Id: <32945FA0.6B88@clearcom.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:56:48 -0400
From: Kevin
Reply-To: steamer@clearcom.net
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: "JaY!"
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu, lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: (Fac33) Johnny & drugs
References: <199611191614.LAA17427@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
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------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Melissa Cannon
CC: steamer@clearcom.net, Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: Fwd- (Fac33) Johnny & d
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:13:35 -0800
Message-ID: <3293585F.2E78@sirius.com>
Who cares who does drugs. It seems like a silly topic. Drugs are a
bit of a reality in the music world. People do it. Sometimes they get
over it sometimes they don't. Sometimes they die young, sometimes they
go on and on.
What does it have to do with anything? It can be a hard life. The
unusual thing would be if any of these people were and had always been
complete abstainers. That might be interesting.
L.
------------------------------
From: Kevin
To: lea@sirius.com
CC: Melissa Cannon ,
Infected Mailing List
Subject: Re: Fwd- (Fac33) Johnny & d
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:57:17 -0400
Message-ID: <3294A60D.564B@clearcom.net>
I see your point, Lea.
I happen to care about the drug issue BECAUSE it is a part of life and
particularly the lifestyle of pop/rock musicians. If someone was affected
by a chemical and made a sound that DOES something to me, I want to know,
just like I want to know what instrument or electronics were used to
create the physical part. To often I believe we separate the physical
performance and lose focus on the performer's state of mind.
I am thinking that my "wonder if J Marr would come clean now?" bit was
perhaps misinterpreted. My intention was not to probe condemn nor
condone his behavior or lifestyle choice, but rather to satisfy my
curiosity. I think it is the same mechanism that drives those who witness
spectacular auto accidents to say, "Was she drinking?"
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: lea@sirius.com
Cc: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Re: Fwd- (Fac33) Johnny & d
Date: 20 Nov 1996 11:32:56 -0800
Message-Id:
RE>>Fwd- (Fac33) Johnny & d =
11/20/96
True. But who admits to abstaining? Some glorify it and some simply have =
no comment. I think the ones who preach the evils of drug use are =
probably lying.
Personally, I really don't care so long as the music sounds good and =
concert dates aren't affected.
Mel
P.S. Completely off the beaten track. Last night I dreamt that Michael =
Stipe died of a drug overdose. So my ex-boyfriend committed suicide in =
solidarity. Hmm... better look that one up in my "What Dreams Mean" book.
- --------------------------------------
Date: 11/20/96 11:19 AM
To: Melissa Cannon
From: lea@sirius.com
Who cares who does drugs. It seems like a silly topic. Drugs are a
bit of a reality in the music world. People do it. Sometimes they get
over it sometimes they don't. Sometimes they die young, sometimes they
go on and on.
What does it have to do with anything? It can be a hard life. The
unusual thing would be if any of these people were and had always been
complete abstainers. That might be interesting.
L.
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:13:35 -0800
From: Lea Curry
Reply-To: lea@sirius.com
Organization: needed
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To: Melissa Cannon
Cc: steamer@clearcom.net, Infected Mailing List =
Subject: Re: Fwd- (Fac33) Johnny & d
References:
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------------------------------
From: Huck
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Uncertain Smile
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:33:47 +0100
Message-ID: <3293874B.61D9@wwonline.com>
DOUG H WALKER wrote:
> My advice: try Infected, it has what I believe to be the best
> written music, and is the most cohesive album in my opinion.
We all have different opinions and everytime the "Best Album" debate
comes around, we all seem to disagree. Everbody finds their own relation
to the music. It is like looking at clouds, you will see what you want
to see, or hear...
I cannot pick out one that I could call the best... each has their own
story, passsion, magic, relevence and feeling.
Matt is a tormented man, or so it sounds. If that is the case, we all
seem to relate, thus we are all pretty cionfused and goes to show you we
are all esentially the same.
> Has anyone else noticed how MJ's voice has become more prominent
> with each album. Compare his distorted, almost unintelligible
> lyrics on BBS to his crooning on Dusk. Particulary the first track.
Interesting diagnosis, Bones.
Maybe confidence!
> I'm glad to hear someone talk about MJ's music.
Imagine that on a thethe list... :)
> Aren't we all curious as to the sound of Gun Sluts or whatever it'll
> be called.
Nope!, I can wait. Patience, son.
walk down to the store to buy it, when it does.
jr
------------------------------
From: Philip E Kramer <0006040983@mcimail.com>
To: infected
Subject: Uncertain Smile
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 17:43 EST
Message-Id: <01961120224310/0006040983ND4EM@MCIMAIL.COM>
I'm new to this list, but it looks like its about 'The The'.
I found them recently, and I'm very impressed with Soul Mining, especially
Uncertain Smile. The instrumental for the last 2/3s is great.
What else of their's is as good? Why do you think so? Is there anything
else with as good an instrumental?
Phil
------------------------------
From: Patrick Stewart
To: Philip E Kramer <0006040983@mcimail.com>
Cc: infected
Subject: Re: Uncertain Smile
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:15:03 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id:
> I'm new to this list, but it looks like its about 'The The'.
You got it!
>
> I found them recently, and I'm very impressed with Soul Mining, especially
> Uncertain Smile. The instrumental for the last 2/3s is great.
>
> What else of their's is as good? Why do you think so? Is there anything
> else with as good an instrumental?
Oh, Phil, you just stepped into a hornet's nest... at least from my
perspective, and pretty much everyone else on the list... everything is
great. However, to give you a decision rule of sorts:
Burning Blue Soul- preindustrial (i.e. hard theThe- gets me moving)
Infected- harder than Soul Mining, great first track and last two tracks
are amongst my favorites
Mind Bomb- not an immediate favorite of mine, took about two plays
through. Deals mainly with religious questions.
Dusk- great intro track (it's become a mantra of mine as I enter into
relationships- to keep me from getting overwhelmed with emotion). Deals
with mainly lust.
As I see it BBS and Soul Mining are more introspective albums... if you
are in your late teens thru mid twenties they seem to reflect upon ones
feelings.
Infected and Mind Bomb seem to be more societal albums... critique the
structure of nations and religions, respectively.
Dusk is more of a relationship album. If you got the blues, this is
where you go!
Hanky Panky is for die hards, or cross-over Hank Williams Sr. fans.
Good luck. My intro was Infected and I've been a fan ever since
(although sometimes it takes two to three listenings to appreciate each
album.
Patrick
> > Phil
>
>
------------------------------
From: Philip E Kramer <0006040983@mcimail.com>
To: infected
Subject: Re: Uncertain Smile
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 11:56 EST
Message-Id: <61961121165616/0006040983ND4EM@MCIMAIL.COM>
Wow - that was quite a response!
Now I'll just have to go out and get 3 or 4 CD's (too bad!!) ....I'll
let the list know soon how they sound to a newcomer.
Thank you for all of your input!!
Phil
------------------------------
From: "DOUG H WALKER"
To:
Subject: re: Uncertain Smile
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 96 1:36:06 PST
Message-Id:
Welcome to theThe, Phil. I discovered theThe when I was 19 when
Infected came out. This music was completely different than anything
I'd ever heard. This was the type of music I would have created had I
the opportunity, but I never could have imagined this music before I
heard it. (of course even if I had imagined it I don't think my four
months of cello lessons would have taken me very far.) I guess what
I'm trying to not so eloquently say is that I felt like MJ had written
the album just for me. (I was a little on the ego-cetric side at the
time.)
My advice: try Infected, it has what I believe to be the best written
music, and is the most cohesive album in my opinion. A close second
would be Dusk. It has a wider variety of sounds, and is the most
accessible of his albums. ( whatever that means.)
Has anyone else noticed how MJ's voice has become more prominent with
each album. Compare his distorted, almost unintelligible lyrics on
BBS to his crooning on Dusk. Particulary the first track.
Also, Phil mentioned that he liked the instrumental part to Uncertain
Smile. I'm glad to hear someone talk about MJ's music. I, like the
rest of you, am moved and inspired by the often poetic and poignant
lyrics, but it was the music which first attracted me to theThe. I
may not have given him a second listen had it not been for the music,
and it's his ability to add his touch to so many different styles
which keeps me listening. (Aren't we all curious as to the sound of
Gun Sluts or whatever it'll be called.)
- -walker
------------------------------
From: "Martyn Iannece"
To: "The The's"
Subject: Rating The Albums
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:46:30 -0500
Message-Id: <199611210451.XAA05557@ishmail.gemsoft.com>
I'm sure this is going to touch of a blaze of epic proportions, but I
thought I'd take a moment to rank the albums. (Bearing in mind that this
is all completely subjective and nobody has the 'correct' opinion.)
#1 - MInd Bomb - It was my first, and the only album I didn't have to
listen to a few times to get appreciate. I think lyrically it contains some
of his most provactive and dangerous work. It's not just about religion
and politics - witness 'August & September', 'Gravitate To Me', and 'Beyond
Love' (which may be my favourite love song of all-time) - but
it's big part of why I put this one at #1. Musically I think it's his most
interesting, lots of different influences, and boy, do I love percussion!
"Was our love too strong to die, or were we just to weak to kill it?"
#2 - Infected - With exception of the title track (I prefer the remix that
appears on 'Solitude') another truly great album. Is there a man alive
that cannot relate to 'out of the blue (into the fire)'? Is there a woman
alive who cannot relate to 'slow train to dawn'? Outstanding!
#3 - Soul Mining - Tough choice for 3rd place between this and DUSK but I
think this is a better overall album. Musically quite simple but there's a
truth to it that cannot be shaken off. "How can anyone know me, when I
don't even know myself?"
#4 - DUSK - I think half the album is great and the other half is mediocre
(for the The). Musically the most conventional. Lyrics aren't quite as
resonant as in the past.
#5 - Solitude - Don't know if this counts as an album but it's got some
great stuff on it. Live version of 'Another Boy Drowning', absolutely
knockout version of 'Infected' - very slow and sexy.
#6 - Hanky Panky - (Sorry Matt) I like a third of the tracks but it's just
too 'Country(?)' for my taste.
#7 - Burning Blue Soul - This is like getting a peek at Michaelangelo's
sketch pad. The shape of things to come.
And that's it. There are bootlegs and EP's available but I don't have
them. I understand that the critics disliked 'Mind Bomb' more than any of
his work up to that point and perhaps that's why he moved away from that
type of sound. I may be the only one who thinks this way but it's a shame.
I still love the work though and will continue to buy the albums whenever
they make their sporadic appearances.
Have a calm day.
Martyn
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -
Martyn Iannece
Writer/Adventurer/Paranoid
"MY GOD! IT'S FULL OF STARS!!"
Gemsoft Corp.
tel: (416) 368-1552 ext 232
fax: (416) 368-9682
miannece@gemsoft.com
------------------------------
From: santiago zorzopulos
To: Martyn Iannece
cc: "The The's"
Subject: Re: Rating The Albums
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:05:53 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
Well, this about shows how different and varied all of us the The fans are.
Here are my selections:
#1: Burning Blue Soul:
In my opinion, MJ's most creative piece of work ever. This is an
album I never get tired of hearing, and for some reason I like the song
organization.
#2: Hanky Panky:
MJ's forray into the world of covers came ouyt excellently. It
took me a while to really appreciate it, but it's now one of my favorite
all-timers.
#3: Infected:
Artisticly speaking, this is perhaps MJ's best. The song depth is
unmatched anywhere else. My only complaint is that perhaps the
proportions are too epic, and without the images (from his video) you
can't capture the soul of the music.
#4: Mindbomb:
The winning team of MJ and Marr made this one a delight. Strong
political overtone made it sometimes difficult to connect with.
#5: Solitude:
One again, MJ proves that, like Picasso, he's a master of many
forms.
#6: Soul Mining:
The synthpop world is always a nice one. SM is much deeper than
your average song of this genre. It was breaking rules. A great one.
#7: Dusk:
MJ finally got mainstream success with this release. The fusion
of Jazz with classic the The style was nearly seamless.
These are all very difficult to rate, because on any given day I like on
more than the other. So as of right now (11am on a thursday morning)
thats how I feel. Who knows what I'll think this afternoon.
Regards,
Santiago Zorzopulos
------------------------------
From: Jgsuz@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Martyn's rating
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:16:23 -0500
Message-ID: <961121001621_229414955@emout16.mail.aol.com>
your opinions must be correct because i agree with your rating
wholeheartedly. matt johnson has been a part of my life for 16 years and i
am always mezmorized with each new work and awed at how everyone of them
is musically brilliant. matt's unpredictability is probably why he's kept me
around for so long. for any newcomer to the the, all i have to say is,
welcome to the rollercoaster of musical talent.--Suz
------------------------------
From: "Sean Kennedy"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Martyn's rating
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:33:34 +1300
Message-Id:
> for any newcomer to the the, all i have to say is,
> welcome to the rollercoaster of musical talent.--Suz
And for once it's refreshing for a new list member's post not to ask
where a copy of PoD can be obtained!!
Sean
===============================================================================
Sean Kennedy, sean_kennedy@trimble.co.nz
Network Support, phone 0064-03-371-3517
Trimble Navigation New Zealand. fax 0064-03-371-3417
===============================================================================
The views expressed are soley mine and not those of my employer
===============================================================================
------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: and now for something worthwhile
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 06:55:18 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961122065223.21571650@student.anu.edu.au>
It seems that I have been posting some absolute garbage as of late on this
list. The end of year scramble to achieve some respectable grades had come,
and creativity was at its lowest. So now I have something interesting and
more worthwhile for you all.
In a 1993 edition of Details magazine I read a short piece of mj, which was
consisted mostly of an interview with him. This edition had Dave Gahan (of
DM) on the cover wearing a purple jacket. In the interview mj declared that
he doesn't write songs about something unless he has experienced it, unless
he has acted it and felt it. He even suggested, if I remember coherently,
that if he wrote about stabbing someone, then it would probably mean that he
had in fact stabbed someone. You get the idea. Does anyone remember this
interview? It was quite mature, not so pathetic as the run-of-the-mill
magazine interview. I think it may have talked as well (at least one
interview around the same time did) about mj's being suspected by some as
being prophetic in light of his Sweet Bird of Truth, and his Armageddon Days
are Here Again. Mj stated that because these ideas that were being voiced
by a sufficient number of people, he responded with an internally focused
album, telling of his feelings, his thoughts, and his fastinations. Has mj
told this story at other times and in other places, or was it all a
concoction of an active imagination aimed at entertaining the interviewer?
If it is true, who are the people to whom he was refering?
Cheers,
Bambang
------------------------------
From: "David B. Hirsch"
To: The The list
Subject: Re: and now for something worthwhile
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:31:10 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID:
interestingly enough, in a 1987 interview matt claimed he had stabbed
someone once. he said it was ok because it was just a journalist.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
"And I knew this pretty girl once, she was eighteen. . .maybe. What's a
year or two. And one day when she asked me if I love her, I said baby,
what's it worth to you. You look surprised, you shouldn't be, this world
is full of creeps like me."
--lyle lovett.
------------------------------
From: Joshua D Baze
To: "David B. Hirsch"
cc: The The list
Subject: Re: and now for something worthwhile
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 19:14:36 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID:
matt also mentioned the stabbing thing in this details interview, when he
was probbed about things he'd done in the name of his art. he said he
often did things he shouldn't in the name of gaining experience from
which to write about. he said they were both drunk, and it was done in
self defense.
by the way everyone on this list, particularly those with a fondness for
hanky panky should immediatly run from their homes to go purchase the
album sackcloth n ashes by the brilliant band 16 horsepower. you can
thank me later...
------------------------------
From: Smiley Boy
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: and now for something worthwhile
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 17:04:14 -0700
Message-ID: <32963F72.6867@cadvision.com>
Joshua D Baze wrote:
> by the way everyone on this list, particularly those with a fondness for
> hanky panky should immediatly run from their homes to go purchase the
> album sackcloth n ashes by the brilliant band 16 horsepower. you can
> thank me later...
I don't know about that one. I like Hanky Panky but found 16
Horsepower quite bland -- but then again there's no accounting for
personal tastes!
skot
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We were once eggs and have been monkeys ever since!
-Me, Mom and Morgentaler
------------------------------
From: auroreg@ix.netcom.com (Peter Wu)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: any info at all
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 00:22:36 -0800
Message-Id: <199611230822.AAA14805@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com>
Do you have any information at all regarding any projects in the works
or any tours which they might be planning? And where the hell is
Johnny Marr?
Pete
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: any info at all
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 00:51:00
Message-Id: <199611250552.AAA05778@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>And where the hell is
>Johnny Marr?
Johnny is not a part of the The now.
I think it's for the better.
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: "SHANNON R. LITTON"
To: INFECTED@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Marr's current plans
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:54:39 -0500 (EST)
Message-id: <01IC6ZVF3G1U935SXL@EMUVAX.EMICH.EDU>
According to the recent things I've heard and read, Johnny is quite comfortable
with Bernard Sumner and Electronic. He said that he enjoys writing and
working with Bernard more than anything he could do playing guitar in a band.
Shannon
------------------------------
From: luster@gnn.com (JaY!)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Marr's current plans
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 00:51:44
Message-Id: <199611250553.AAA28323@mail-e2b.gnn.com>
>According to the recent things I've heard and read, Johnny is quite
> comfortable
>with Bernard Sumner and Electronic. He said that he enjoys writing and
>working with Bernard more than anything he could do playing guitar in a
> band.
for all you'd ever want to know about Marr, check out:
http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
JaY!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- -General Email:luster@gnn.com
- -"Draize Train" Email list: lsamper_marr@indiana.edu
- -HOME PAGE:http://members.gnn.com/luster/
- -JOHNNY MARR:http://members.gnn.com/luster/Iknow.htm
...more than you'll...ever...know
------------------------------
From: Alexander Frens
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: lyrics of "Soul Mining"
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 08:10:32 -0800
Message-ID: <3299C4F7.6F16@gsf.de>
Where can I get the complete lyrics of "Soul Mining".
------------------------------
From: "Melissa Cannon"
To: "Infected Mailing List"
Subject: Read me, read me. I'm impor
Date: 27 Nov 1996 12:25:11 -0800
Message-Id:
Well, not really. But...
Since we all know how much we like to receive e-mail and because I =
haven't seen any lively posts lately, I thought I would send you all this =
message:
Happy (early) Thanksgiving to one and all. Or as the non-U.S. residents =
like to call it... Thursday. Ha! Hmm, methinks I've been watching way too =
much SNL.
Peace, goodwill toward m.. (Oops, sorry 'bout that. That's my Christmas =
post.)
Priscilla has left the building,
Mel
------------------------------
From: Bambang
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: my farewell message
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:22:22 +1100
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961128111906.286f7e5c@student.anu.edu.au>
Farewell all ye friends and companions...
I'm unsubscribing in two days. It's been fun, it's been games, it's been
something I'd do all over again. Here's to the new album, and enjoyable
times. I can't say when next I'll have access to email, so until then keep
it cool, keep it up, and run amok. (By the way, amok comes from the Malay
language, it is the term that refers to a person who loses the plot and
preceeds to run around apparently not conscious of the things s/he is doing;
it generally constitutes running around and being violent. Just thought I
might share that...)
Long live the word... :)
Bambang
------- end -------