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------------------------------
From: JWH
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Heartland?
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 12:28:17 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID:
Here's a thought that my flatmate and I were discussing, I was wondering
what any of you might think about it.
Every news clip I have seen in the American media portrays the House of
Windsor as uncaring, unfit leaders due to their apparent lack of mourning
for Diana and the nonchalance with which they ousted her from the Family.
What I don't understand is this:
a) the gravely incorrect decision on the part of the Royal Family to have
Charles marry Diana in the first place (the pretty one was the wrong
choice)
b) the way Diana has become 'American' overnight
c) why Britain cannot be allowed to mourn in it's own way (the traditional
"stiff upper-lip")
and d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
Now, no offense to the shutterbugs out there, yet Diana's death is a
tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the photogs.
However, if Matt Johnson was concerned over the Britain's loss of identity
to the U.S. during the eighties, what must he think now with the future
Monarch of his land the most American of Princes?
Please, I simply ask that if I have mis-stated a fact that I not be
reemed... I simply wish to discuss the effects the America had on Diana,
and consequently on the future King William.
- -JWH
------------------------------
From: Richard Gaze
To: "infected@cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: RE: Heartland?
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:13:11 +0800
Message-ID: <01BCBC7A.7CA632B0@RICHARD>
Speaking of car crashes, what a bummer. Last thursday I totalled my =
spanking new 200SX on the freeway here down under in Aussie. I did a 360 =
across three lanes of rush hour traffic in the morning, and ended up =
down an embankment. I was not shit-faced.
Richie
------------------------------
From: kelly514@juno.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:42:08 -0700
Message-ID: <19970908.112705.11606.0.kelly514@juno.com>
Diana in America, like England, has been looked highly upon because of
her beauty. America wouldn't make this much fuss over Charles or Fergie.
We seem to look past her aggressive divorce proceedings in which she took
millions from the English taxpayers, and her adulterous behavior. Frankly
I would be embarrassed if she was a family member. Her death was tragic
and sad but she was no saint or victim like many like to portray her. I
think God took Mother Teresa's life in order to tell the world "GET YOUR
PRIORITES STRAIGHT". I'm sure Matt will help those delusioned to get a
grip on reality in some upcoming release.
What we did learn from the accident is safety belts save lives and drunk
driving kills.
Matt is right, England is the 51st state. It's just as insane as America.
Brian
------------------------------
From: Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM (Adrian Stubbs)
To: JWH , infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 14:13:21 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970905141320.006b9434@sc-mail1.corpwest.baynetworks.com>
Some rambling thoughts
We do not know how much the photographers were to blame. They may have been a long way behind. Lets wait and see.
Drunk Driving kills. Drunk Driving Kills.
Maybe the guy felt he had to drive. We don't know yet
If you take a picture of a dead baby being held by a fireman - Pulitzer prize.
Take a picture of a Car wreck that has someone very popular in it and you're branded the devil.
Telling the Royal family HOW they shouldd grieve is the most disgusting thing to have happened yet. We complain that the photographers hounded Diana to death and in the same breath we condem the Royal Family for not sharing their grief. Give them a break.
She didn't have to marry him. She was exceptable, why stop it happening.
""""why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot""""
Shoot the National Enquirer Editor.. What a fucking hypocrit. I have never felt so sick as when I had to listen to him condemming the photographers taking the pictures that he regularily commmissions.
This does not Directly have anything to do with MJ and The The. Why are we discussing it. Why am I discussing it.
- -Adrian
An Englishman in California who's sick of the circus.
At 12:28 PM 9/5/97 -0700, JWH wrote:
>Here's a thought that my flatmate and I were discussing, I was wondering
>what any of you might think about it.
>
>Every news clip I have seen in the American media portrays the House of
>Windsor as uncaring, unfit leaders due to their apparent lack of mourning
>for Diana and the nonchalance with which they ousted her from the Family.
>What I don't understand is this:
>a) the gravely incorrect decision on the part of the Royal Family to have
>Charles marry Diana in the first place (the pretty one was the wrong
>choice)
>b) the way Diana has become 'American' overnight
>c) why Britain cannot be allowed to mourn in it's own way (the traditional
>"stiff upper-lip")
>and d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
>
>Now, no offense to the shutterbugs out there, yet Diana's death is a
>tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the photogs.
>However, if Matt Johnson was concerned over the Britain's loss of identity
>to the U.S. during the eighties, what must he think now with the future
>Monarch of his land the most American of Princes?
>
>Please, I simply ask that if I have mis-stated a fact that I not be
>reemed... I simply wish to discuss the effects the America had on Diana,
>and consequently on the future King William.
>-JWH
>
>
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Adrian Stubbs
CC: JWH , infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 19:11:27 -0700
Message-ID: <3410BBCF.1876@sirius.com>
I dont see any connection between blaming the photographers and not
caring for the way the Royal Family is acting. There is no logical
reason why one should negate or not negate the other.
The paparazzi have been getting more and more out of hand and this
should be a wakeup. Stalking is illegal in most senses and it doesnt
seem quite fair that someone famous should be immune. A minimum
personal distance isnt too much to ask. Sure the public demand and the
editors play into it. But stalking is stalking. And you are right. We
dont know the whole story and once the witness is handeled by the palace
we may never know. But this stalking and abuse needs to stop,
regardless. Sure people shouldnt read the crap and editors shouldnt pay
for it, but lehgislating that is more dangerous than not. There is no
way an editor can know how a photographer behaves on the scene, can
they?
> She didn't have to marry him. She was exceptable, why stop it happening.
>
Diana was 19 years old, fairly sheltered and a virgin, and there is
little doubt in my mind that she was lead on and then DUMPED. Since the
state required a certified Virgin as well as a whole bunch of OTHER
requirements , and Chuckers was getting on with no heirs, they
obviously had a problem, and they obviously didnt care if they ruined
someone to solve it. Pity they couldnt have just stuffed her in a closet
once she produced the heir and the spare, so Charles could continue
with Camilla. Or Do you think they tOLD her about that beforehand? I
dont think they DID.
Diana was used at an age when she was quite vulnerable. The Windsors
are culpable in most peoples minds.
I can WELL understand the dissatisfaction with the Windsors. At this
point , its probably pointless to criticize them for anything as its too
late and there isnt much they CAN say.
JWH says:
> At 12:28 PM 9/5/97 -0700, JWH wrote:
> >Here's a thought that my flatmate and I were discussing, I was wondering
> >what any of you might think about it.
> >
> >Every news clip I have seen in the American media portrays the House of
> >Windsor as uncaring, unfit leaders due to their apparent lack of mourning
> >for Diana and the nonchalance with which they ousted her from the Family.
Well just about every clip I see from the UK media shows exactly the
same thing. In fact, if anything its worse there. Your point?
> >What I don't understand is this:
> >a) the gravely incorrect decision on the part of the Royal Family to have
> >Charles marry Diana in the first place (the pretty one was the wrong
> >choice)
A virgin with a certain background was required and Charles was getting
on. They needed an heir and a spare. She was used.
> >b) the way Diana has become 'American' overnight
What do you base THAT on? Became American? Maybe she was just a
modern young teenager. Most of the UK is NOT like the Windsors!!!!
> >c) why Britain cannot be allowed to mourn in it's own way (the traditional
> >"stiff upper-lip")
The bulk of the criticism is from within the UK, and there is a great
deal of public mourning there that wouldnt fit the "stiff upper lip"
description. Have you been watching? The monarchs are nott typical
Brits!
> >and d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
Well, thats logical. gee, why didnt I think of that.
> >
> >Now, no offense to the shutterbugs out there, yet Diana's death is a
> >tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the photogs.
Maybe. Maybe it was a drunk driver, a playboy that wanted to tease her
and show off, or any number of things.
> >However, if Matt Johnson was concerned over the Britain's loss of identity
> >to the U.S. during the eighties, what must he think now with the future
> >Monarch of his land the most American of Princes?
The most American of Princes? Where do you get THIS?
> >
> >Please, I simply ask that if I have mis-stated a fact that I not be
> >reemed... I simply wish to discuss the effects the America had on Diana,
> >and consequently on the future King William.
You havent stated ANY facts. You have stated a whole bunch of
groundless opinions and even inflammatory ones, and then have the
audacity to demand not to be reamed. Thats not very realistic, now is
it?
Its a modern world and its rather imbecilic to think that America is
somehow corrupting British character.
I think Matt was a bit more concerned with politics and finances ,
rather than the Royal's or their concubines becomming modern.
Lea
Finally, these same feelings have been stronger in the UK than the US. I
dont think Diana is any more the product of America than anyone else
that lives in the modern world in the UK. This isnt a FACT youve stated
at all.
- --
"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
They got muscles for brains..."
- - Gang of Four
------------------------------
From: Patrick Stewart
To: Adrian Stubbs
Cc: JWH , infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 16:51:44 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id:
Just a quick question:
Why are fascinated by the rich and famous and not the intellegent and
interesting?
also,
How much media mileage will come out of the death of Mother Theresa
vis-a-vis Princess Di?
and a comment:
People around the world are shallow. I saw the same lack of depth in
British punters heading to the Costa del Sol as I saw with American
rednecks heading to Graceland. And I'm not imune from criticism--
especially considering that I watch WCW professional wrestling avidly.
So why bother ripping on Brits, Americans, Japanese, French (other than
it being fun), or what have you?
Patrick
On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Adrian Stubbs wrote:
> Some rambling thoughts
>
> We do not know how much the photographers were to blame. They may have been a long way behind. Lets wait and see.
>
> Drunk Driving kills. Drunk Driving Kills.
>
> Maybe the guy felt he had to drive. We don't know yet
>
> If you take a picture of a dead baby being held by a fireman - Pulitzer prize.
> Take a picture of a Car wreck that has someone very popular in it and you're branded the devil.
>
> Telling the Royal family HOW they shouldd grieve is the most disgusting thing to have happened yet. We complain that the photographers hounded Diana to death and in the same breath we condem the Royal Family for not sharing their grief. Give them a break.
>
> She didn't have to marry him. She was exceptable, why stop it happening.
>
> """"why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot""""
>
> Shoot the National Enquirer Editor.. What a fucking hypocrit. I have never felt so sick as when I had to listen to him condemming the photographers taking the pictures that he regularily commmissions.
>
> This does not Directly have anything to do with MJ and The The. Why are we discussing it. Why am I discussing it.
>
> -Adrian
> An Englishman in California who's sick of the circus.
>
>
> At 12:28 PM 9/5/97 -0700, JWH wrote:
> >Here's a thought that my flatmate and I were discussing, I was wondering
> >what any of you might think about it.
> >
> >Every news clip I have seen in the American media portrays the House of
> >Windsor as uncaring, unfit leaders due to their apparent lack of mourning
> >for Diana and the nonchalance with which they ousted her from the Family.
> >What I don't understand is this:
> >a) the gravely incorrect decision on the part of the Royal Family to have
> >Charles marry Diana in the first place (the pretty one was the wrong
> >choice)
> >b) the way Diana has become 'American' overnight
> >c) why Britain cannot be allowed to mourn in it's own way (the traditional
> >"stiff upper-lip")
> >and d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
> >
> >Now, no offense to the shutterbugs out there, yet Diana's death is a
> >tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the photogs.
> >However, if Matt Johnson was concerned over the Britain's loss of identity
> >to the U.S. during the eighties, what must he think now with the future
> >Monarch of his land the most American of Princes?
> >
> >Please, I simply ask that if I have mis-stated a fact that I not be
> >reemed... I simply wish to discuss the effects the America had on Diana,
> >and consequently on the future King William.
> >-JWH
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
From: Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM (Adrian Stubbs)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 11:53:19 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970908115318.0069f1e0@sc-mail1.corpwest.baynetworks.com>
Classic stuff.
I agree with the safety belt/drunk driving bit. Also I think if Princess Anne was more 'Classically beautiful' she would mean more to all these Diana fanatics, as it is they couldn't care less.
However, if anyone in my family had suffered a marriage to someone who had a mistress the whole time and was driven to various eating disorders etc., I would be very proud when she dumped the baffoon and took what she could get.
She didn't take the money from the Tax Payer ; They'd already given it to the Royal family. Remember also that Britain makes Billions out of it's Royal Heritage. If it wasn't for millions of tourist going to see where the Queen lives, we wouldn't quite be getting the same ammount of tourism as we get right now
When was she adulterous, did I miss something. She certainly was a victim. No she wasn't a saint and even she was angry that the noble work of other members of the royal family was largely ignored by the media.
Mother Teresa's Life was taken... Blah Blah. Bollocks.
- -Adrian
At 06:42 PM 9/7/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Diana in America, like England, has been looked highly upon because of
>her beauty. America wouldn't make this much fuss over Charles or Fergie.
>We seem to look past her aggressive divorce proceedings in which she took
>millions from the English taxpayers, and her adulterous behavior. Frankly
>I would be embarrassed if she was a family member. Her death was tragic
>and sad but she was no saint or victim like many like to portray her. I
>think God took Mother Teresa's life in order to tell the world "GET YOUR
>PRIORITES STRAIGHT". I'm sure Matt will help those delusioned to get a
>grip on reality in some upcoming release.
>
>What we did learn from the accident is safety belts save lives and drunk
>driving kills.
>
>Matt is right, England is the 51st state. It's just as insane as America.
>
>Brian
>
>
------------------------------
From: Ktcoach@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 01:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970906014540_1886321146@emout01.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-09-05 18:24:30 EDT, you write:
d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
Now, no offense to the shutterbugs out there, yet Diana's death is a
tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the photogs. >>
What about the fault of the driver of the car for excessive speeding and
reckless handling of his vehical???? Or the real reason, that of the people
who give the photographers a reason to take celeberty photos; our excessive
need to see how they(royalty, stars, musicians, etc) live, what they do, and
who they associate with. If we didn't buy their crap, they(the photogs)
wouldn't have a need to chase celebs down.
Also, if it were not for the media, we would not know of her humanitarian
work. Nor would we see how much of an impact her death has made on people
and the world. Its like everything else in the world, it takes one or two
idiots to spoil it for the rest of us.
"an offended shutterbug"
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: "the The's Unfortunate Children (E-mail)"
Subject: RE: Heartland?
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 15:31:58 -0500
Message-ID:
Your statement
"...Diana's death is a
tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the photogs"
is not a fact,
or even a mis-stated fact...it is an opinion.
And it is welcome.
I have a tough time placing all the blame on the photographers, but I
would still like to kick the shit out of them.
In any case, I would like to know if any people of African descent want
to know how The British Museum got its name. Everything in it is from
Africa. It is tough for me to feel much about the loss of British
Tradition. To me, "Heartland" is a call to awareness of American
Imperialism, which mirrors that of the British Empire except that it it
a bit more subtle and sinister.
I cannot defend the American Media, or the American Government, or the
foolish perspective
from which the American people view the world. I do, however, think that
Diana and William are nearly insignificant footnotes compared to the
takeover by corporations. Cultures sometimes survive these takeovers,
but don't hold your breath.
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JWH [SMTP:jwh@u.arizona.edu]
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 1997 2:28 PM
> To: kevin@nt3.clearcom.net
> Subject: Heartland?
>
> Here's a thought that my flatmate and I were discussing, I was
> wondering
> what any of you might think about it.
>
> Every news clip I have seen in the American media portrays the House
> of
> Windsor as uncaring, unfit leaders due to their apparent lack of
> mourning
> for Diana and the nonchalance with which they ousted her from the
> Family.
> What I don't understand is this:
> a) the gravely incorrect decision on the part of the Royal Family to
> have
> Charles marry Diana in the first place (the pretty one was the wrong
> choice)
> b) the way Diana has become 'American' overnight
> c) why Britain cannot be allowed to mourn in it's own way (the
> traditional
> "stiff upper-lip")
> and d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
>
> Now, no offense to the shutterbugs out there, yet Diana's death is a
> tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the
> photogs.
> However, if Matt Johnson was concerned over the Britain's loss of
> identity
> to the U.S. during the eighties, what must he think now with the
> future
> Monarch of his land the most American of Princes?
>
> Please, I simply ask that if I have mis-stated a fact that I not be
> reemed... I simply wish to discuss the effects the America had on
> Diana,
> and consequently on the future King William.
> -JWH
------------------------------
From: Bill Jost
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 1997 18:58:39 -0400
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970905185839.006d70e0@ingsoc.com>
At 12:28 PM 9/5/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Here's a thought that my flatmate and I were discussing, I was wondering
>what any of you might think about it.
>
>Every news clip I have seen in the American media portrays the House of
>Windsor as uncaring, unfit leaders due to their apparent lack of mourning
>for Diana and the nonchalance with which they ousted her from the Family.
>What I don't understand is this:
>a) the gravely incorrect decision on the part of the Royal Family to have
>Charles marry Diana in the first place (the pretty one was the wrong
>choice)
Now this is piece of society that I am happy to see change in any form and
no matter how small. Birth DOES NOT dictate a person's worth. To say that
Diana/Charles should not have been allowed to marry whomever they wished to
is ludicrous.
>b) the way Diana has become 'American' overnight
Diana was never viewed with anything rivaling her status in Britain here in
America, but she always got good press and attention from the public when
she visited.
>c) why Britain cannot be allowed to mourn in it's own way (the traditional
>"stiff upper-lip")
There is no reason why they cannot continue to do so. Apparently the royal
family felt obliged to show some type of public mourning as a result of
pressure from the British Public. Now whether the public there is
requiring this type of mourning on the suggestion of the American or
British press/TV is another story.
d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
Maybe somewhere a state can pass a law to allow an open season on
photographer. You know...cull the stock a bit :P
Bill (wajost@ingsoc.com)
- --In America, and increasingly in Europe, technology is
a one-eyed king ruling unopposed amidst idiot cheering.
-- Neil Postman
------------------------------
From: JWH
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 12:27:12 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID:
I think people may have taken my post in a way which I did not intend,
I'll restate it-
First--- Don't shoot any photogs, that was a sad attempt at humor (very
sad)
Second--- I don't care why Di married Chuck, not my business, but
Third-- this woman's death was a tragedy, I don't know who is to blame,
but we'ed all like to see a hanging (mob mentality) What does Tony Blair
have to say about it?
And,
Regardless of Princess Di's death (I included the bit about the photogs
because I didn't want to seem as though I didn't care), What about all
this crap that Peter Jennings is giving her about being 'American' (ized).
I know that people on this list keep up with current events, so what I
originally intended to say was-
I want to talk about the re-occourance of American hegemony that Matt
Johnson felt hurt by in the Eighties and now is stronger than ever.
Ex- Is William being brought up 'American' at all? How much influence
will that have on the Monarchy? Is there an effect? What do you suppose
MJ thinks about this? Does he anymore? Can anyone follow me here, William
was brought up to be King, but Di did a great job mothing him (she taught
him how ordinary, average people live)? Is this good? Should the future
King be 'average and orinary' or should he simply understand the
differences between his status and those of his people? He is a normal
person, but Royalty entails much more responsibility, like what???
See what I mean?!? I don't give a fig about Chuck or the photogs or the
driver... This is a Slow Emotion Replay of Heartland, is it not?!?!
- -JWH
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: JWH
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:50:42 -0700
Message-ID: <3411C222.45E0@sirius.com>
> Can anyone follow me here, William
> was brought up to be King, but Di did a great job mothing him (she taught
> him how ordinary, average people live)? Is this good? Should the future
> King be 'average and orinary' or should he simply understand the
> differences between his status and those of his people? He is a normal
> person, but Royalty entails much more responsibility, like what???
>
>
> See what I mean?!? I don't give a fig about Chuck or the photogs or the
> driver... This is a Slow Emotion Replay of Heartland, is it not?!?!
> -JWH
I think you are mixing up show business with politics. Whatever the
royals are or are not has become pretty seperate from politics. At the
time Heartland was written Thatcher was kissing up to the US and we were
putting short range nuclear warheads in"their gardens".
The "politcs" of short range warheads in interesting because as the US,
we would have had to use ICBM's in any conflict, thus escalating to an
intercontinental exchange. When an ICBM is launched, theres really no
telling whether it is aimed at Iraq or the USSR or China, and theres
little time to find out, so that the notion of Mutually Assured
destruction becomes the operative scenario. A return excchange aimed at
US was very likely.
With short range weapons on UK soil we could have engaged in a
conflict with a limited range. Thus the UK would get hit but we may not!
Its kind of like asking your friend to stand in front of you because a
bully might be out to get you. Not terribly altruistic, but represented
as such "he's brought you sticks and stones to bust your neighbor's
bones" What on the surface is presented as a contribution to NATO,
begins to look more like a containment effort with no care if the UK
ends up the target in an exchange. DOD contracts, and
politicians becomming obsessed with chasing the buck, leaning towards a
fully market driven economy, is also a serious threat to labor and the
socialist way of life. ("let the poor drink their milk while the rich
eat the honey, let the bums count their blessings while we count our
money").
Well, I have a feeling that issues similar to this were more under
consideration, in that artistic period, than the posturing of the
ROYALS. While that is great tabaloid entertainment, it actually has
little to do with the political future of Britain. Being young and an
artist, I doubt Matt is any more seriously concerned with the Royals
then we are with Jackie O.
I certainly am saddened by Diana's death, but I dont think
Americanization is the issue. Diana was young and modern. It isnt a
matter of Americanization. We dont have the cornor on progress and if
anything the UK has been the trend setter for US.
Maybe the fact that she mixed so easilly with commoners could be seen
to be "American" in style, but that's a stretch. I doubt Americanization
is any issue here.
Lea
------------------------------
From: Bill Jost
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 20:12:35 -0400
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970906201235.006c9f9c@ingsoc.com>
At 01:50 PM 9/6/97 -0700, you wrote:
> Maybe the fact that she mixed so easilly with commoners could be seen
>to be "American" in style, but that's a stretch. I doubt Americanization
>is any issue here.
>
Just a thought...
Maybe we are mixing things up here. The American news stations have been
describing Diana as The Most American of Princesses. A way of viewing this
is not that they are saying Diana was anything other than British but
rather she was a person that the American public could identify with.
Bill (wajost@ingsoc.com)
- --In America, and increasingly in Europe, technology is
a one-eyed king ruling unopposed amidst idiot cheering.
-- Neil Postman
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Bill Jost
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:41:00 -0700
Message-ID: <3412143C.2C10@sirius.com>
> Maybe we are mixing things up here. The American news stations have been
> describing Diana as The Most American of Princesses. A way of viewing this
> is not that they are saying Diana was anything other than British but
> rather she was a person that the American public could identify with.
Sure. This may be where the poster is getting this idea, but its just a
press thing. I mean Most PEOPLE could identify with her, including most
British people. The Windsors have been quite out of touch, (as they are
painfully finding out), with just about anyone that isnt an old member
of the aristocracy, and I hardly think Matt was lamenting the demise of
THAT !!!
To US the whole of the UK might seem to be associated with this "old
guard" but thats a complete oversimplification.
Confusing that which is modern, with being "American" speaks of a
typical American xenophobia,... that anything "modern" must be
"American", and we really aint "all that". The UK has actually been the
trend setter when it comes to youth, style, and attitude, NOT the other
way around.
Matt certainly WAS talking about our political pressures and the
selling out of UK, (ie. Thatcherism),but what the Royals do is the least
of the problem, nor is it a symptom. Diana was probably on the other
side of the spectrum. She pissed off the British old guard, but I hardly
think THATS what was on Matts mind.
To absorb Heartland it might be more apt to look at the global economy
and Nato pressures on the Tatcher government. Not whether Diana was hip
or a puckered up old dinosauer, or not.
lea
------------------------------
From: JWH
To: Lea Curry
cc: Bill Jost , infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: More on Di, and yes, Dave Matthews...
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 18:16:08 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID:
I just cannot agree about mixing up politics and show business, one is
simply a more acceptable name for the other (in this particular instance).
Although cliched, I believe the above to be true, and I am happy that we
have engaged in such a discussion that may broaden our minds. I must
apologize to those who find it banal though, sorry...
I have always felt that Heartland, in addition to the point about
short-range ICBMs, comments also on the increasing American hegemony
proliferating the full range of British life from Entertainment (both
on-screen and music) to Politics (Thatcherism) to Economy (the effect of
Black Tuesday on the UK market). I hardly think the average British
subject takes the Royals with complete seriousness, yet is the future
King, representative of their country to the world, fit to rule. Has the
modern Di modernized her son too much? I think Matt Johnson would have an
opinion on this and if he did not, it would be proof that after years of
living in the US, he himself has been assimilated into the 51st state of
the USA.
And about Dave Matthews, the man puts on a great show and has written
some excellent music, but I'd never hail him as anything. The depression
of Kurt Cobain (and the like) of the early nineties no longer does
anything for me. But, on a good evening, I will settle back with Dave on
in the background and relax-- so one thumb up from me.
- -JWH
------------------------------
From: snooky@netcomuk.co.uk
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Heartland?
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:41:30 +0100
Message-ID: <3411A3DA.2902@netcomuk.co.uk>
snooky@netcomuk.co.uk wrote:
>
> JWH wrote:
> >
> > Here's a thought that my flatmate and I were discussing, I was wondering
> > what any of you might think about it.
> >
> > Every news clip I have seen in the American media portrays the House of
> > Windsor as uncaring, unfit leaders due to their apparent lack of mourning
> > for Diana and the nonchalance with which they ousted her from the Family.
> > What I don't understand is this:
> > a) the gravely incorrect decision on the part of the Royal Family to have
> > Charles marry Diana in the first place (the pretty one was the wrong
> > choice)
> > b) the way Diana has become 'American' overnight
> > c) why Britain cannot be allowed to mourn in it's own way (the traditional
> > "stiff upper-lip")
> > and d) why we don't simply shoot at photogaphers on the spot
> >
> > Now, no offense to the shutterbugs out there, yet Diana's death is a
> > tragedy (due to her humanitarian work) and was the fault of the photogs.
> > However, if Matt Johnson was concerned over the Britain's loss of identity
> > to the U.S. during the eighties, what must he think now with the future
> > Monarch of his land the most American of Princes?
> >
> > Please, I simply ask that if I have mis-stated a fact that I not be
> > reemed... I simply wish to discuss the effects the America had on Diana,
> > and consequently on the future King William.
> > -JWH
>
> JWH
> Hi snooky here
>
> Interesting!!!
>
> I work for British Airways at London Gatwick and as we were one of the
> very few industries which still worked today, we had a two minutes
> silence WORLDWIDE at 1000hrs GMT. I openly wept along with all my
> colleagues at work, along with passengers from every concievable country
> in the world.
>
> We had the funeral all day on tv live, and if you could see the
> emotional outpouring of the British people today, then our stiff upper
> lip went straight out of the window.
>
> Rember this
>
> LOVE IS STRONGER THAN DEATH..........
>
> TAKE CARE
>
> SNOOKY
------------------------------
From: Jgsuz@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: MUSIC!!
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 13:25:44 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970907132538_725146637@emout11.mail.aol.com>
Enough about the royals- How do the The fans feel about Dave Matthews?
------------------------------
From: JB
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: MUSIC!!
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 13:04:51 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970907130451.006a29bc@pop.mindspring.com>
>From: Jgsuz@aol.com
>Enough about the royals- How do the The fans feel about Dave Matthews?
Apples and Oranges, maybe. But his lyrics from Dancing Nancies really hits
home.
'Could I have been a millionare in Bel Air?,
Could I have been your little brother?'
'Could I have been anone other than me?'
Could I have been, Anyone?'
Considering his singing voice is so hard to dicypher sometimes,
you really need to look at the lyrics to get the full impact of the songs.
(South African born, lived in Virginia since 14.)
His message at times (yes I'm generalizing here) is like a sad philosipher
looking at the state of things,
but somehow he manages to pick himself up and appriciate the beauty of life
for what its worth anyway.
No formal education, left school at 16 taught himself the guitar, sound
like someone else we know?
In that way he's a lot less of a cynic than our MJ, but it's as close as
I've come to the impact of MJ's music/lyrics
here in the states.
JB.
------------------------------
From: Miller6509@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: MUSIC!!
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 14:05:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970907140545_299872825@emout01.mail.aol.com>
Apples and oranges
------------------------------
From: Kevin Paez
To: "'Jgsuz@aol.com '"
Cc: "'infected@cs.uchicago.edu'"
Subject: RE: MUSIC!!
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 15:22:57 -0500
Message-ID:
Don't feel too good about Dave...
- ----------
From: Jgsuz@aol.com
To: kevin@nt3.clearcom.net
Sent: 9/7/97 12:25:44 PM
Subject: MUSIC!!
Enough about the royals- How do the The fans feel about Dave Matthews?
------------------------------
From: kokoprod@nternet.com (Paul Farrow)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: MUSIC!!
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:42:57 -0500
Message-Id:
>Enough about the royals- How do the The fans feel about Dave Matthews?
I agree with whoever said Dave was musically monotone. I say him play at
New Orleans jazz fest, and was excited about it, but after three songs I
couldn't tell where one ended and the other began. We started ignoring the
show and had a little party of our own, so the music was a background muzak
track at best.
p.s. I saw something vageuly mentioned about a live the The recording here
in New Orleans. I'm interested in more info., since I may have been at
that show.
Paul
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
- -HST
------------------------------
From: "Daniel O'Rourke"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: MUSIC!!
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 08:56:49 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID:
On Mon 08 Sep, Paul Farrow wrote:
> >Enough about the royals- How do the The fans feel about Dave Matthews?
>
> I agree with whoever said Dave was musically monotone. I say him play at
> New Orleans jazz fest, and was excited about it, but after three songs I
> couldn't tell where one ended and the other began. We started ignoring the
> show and had a little party of our own, so the music was a background muzak
> track at best.
>
> p.s. I saw something vageuly mentioned about a live the The recording here
> in New Orleans. I'm interested in more info., since I may have been at
> that show.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
> -HST
>
Who is Dave Mathews? ...and No I have never heard of him nor have I been in
Hibernation for X amount of years.
Dan
------------------------------
From: "Theresa Hannigan"
To: "infected%cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: RE: Dave Matthews
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 97 05:04:25 UT
Message-Id:
I find it very difficult to put mj and dave matthews in the same boat.
Everyone always seem to focus so much on the lyrics, granted they are 50% of
the song , but I feel the sound to a song is its emotions. You could take the
same lyrics and put it to different music and evoke different thoughts and
feelings. No way can Dave matthews even compare to mj musically. With mj &
co, you can feel his loneliness, anger, pain, and desire in his music and
haunting melodies.....with Dave matthews there may be different emotions
expressed lyrically, but musically he's in monotone.
Just an opinion.
------------------------------
From: kelly514@juno.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Dave Matthews
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:35:56 -0700
Message-ID: <19970908.182824.8574.1.kelly514@juno.com>
Matthews, although a talented musician, isn't on par with Matt. As one
who listens to music base mostly on the lyrics, I put Matt behind Richard
Butler (Furs and Love Spit Love) but slightly ahead of Morrissey and way
ahead of Lennon, M Stipe, and C Smith (Cure)
Brian
On Mon, 8 Sep 97 05:04:25 UT "Theresa Hannigan"
writes:
>I find it very difficult to put mj and dave matthews in the same boat.
>
>Everyone always seem to focus so much on the lyrics, granted they are
>50% of
>the song , but I feel the sound to a song is its emotions. You could
>take the
>same lyrics and put it to different music and evoke different thoughts
>and
>feelings. No way can Dave matthews even compare to mj musically. With
>mj &
>co, you can feel his loneliness, anger, pain, and desire in his music
>and
>haunting melodies.....with Dave matthews there may be different
>emotions
>expressed lyrically, but musically he's in monotone.
>Just an opinion.
>
>
------------------------------
From: "formerly: luster@gnn.com"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Dave Matthews
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 20:25:45 -0400
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970908202543.0068c6d8@mail.one.net>
>Matthews, although a talented musician, isn't on par with Matt. As one
>who listens to music base mostly on the lyrics, I put Matt behind Richard
>Butler (Furs and Love Spit Love) but slightly ahead of Morrissey and way
>ahead of Lennon, M Stipe, and C Smith (Cure)
what the fuck?
I'm really sorry, but something is terribly wrong here. These are way out
of order IF ONLY because some of these have been influences for the others.
JaY!
*****************************************
"...more than you'll...ever...know"
*****************************************
------------------------------
From: Miller6509@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Dave Matthews
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:09:17 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970910203700_927133323@emout15.mail.aol.com>
Since we've had sooooooo many responses on bands that are similar to the The,
lyrically, intellectually, dark mood, etc., here's aband that fits the
bill....
Siouxsie and the Banshees. I would have loved to see the two bands when they
shared the feature bill at the Leads Music Festival over there in England. A
radio station here in Dallas was doing live spots from it.
Both bands have great lyrics, arrangements, and have no difficulty exploring
the "darer side" of life.
------------------------------
From: Doug Chase
To: "'Theresa Hannigan'" ,
"infected%cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: RE: Dave Matthews
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 15:59:40 -0700
Message-ID:
OK, I'm finally catching up on my The The mail.
I agree with you Theresas, that the music contains a big part of the
emotion in a song. A very good example of this is the disc The The vs.
Hank. This is the one that has Hanky Panky songs back to back with the
original Hank songs. The lyrics are the same, but the emotions elicited
by the two vastly different versions of the same song are quite
different.
Doug
PS. FWIW, I find Dave Matthews rather dull. All of his songs sound
pretty generic and uninspiring to me. Your mileage may vary.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Theresa Hannigan [SMTP:Tehannigan@classic.msn.com]
>
> I find it very difficult to put mj and dave matthews in the same boat.
>
> Everyone always seem to focus so much on the lyrics, granted they are
> 50% of
> the song , but I feel the sound to a song is its emotions. You could
> take the
> same lyrics and put it to different music and evoke different thoughts
> and
> feelings. No way can Dave matthews even compare to mj musically. With
> mj &
> co, you can feel his loneliness, anger, pain, and desire in his music
> and
> haunting melodies.....with Dave matthews there may be different
> emotions
> expressed lyrically, but musically he's in monotone.
> Just an opinion.
------------------------------
From: "Erin Osborne"
To:
Subject: Mr. Matthews
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 02:41:00 -0400
Message-ID: <19970908064308.AAA4854@default>
As much as I wanted to resist Dave Matthews and label them as just another
frat rock band, they've really grown on me. I don't have any of the albums,
I just know what's been played on the radio. I live in Richmond VA, where
they were the house band at one of the local clubs. I never went to go see
them and now I wish I had while it was $5 instead of $25. As far as
comparing them to the The, in my mind, the The doesn't compare to anyone.
No one make me feel more than the The, except maybe Spiritualized, but
they're definitly in second behind Matt and the boys. So there is my two
cents.
------------------------------
From: Richard Gaze
To: "infected@cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: diana funeral
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:16:40 +0800
Message-ID: <01BCBC7A.F9591C50@RICHARD>
Whilst watching bits of the funeral live on telly, I watched George Michael walk in.
If he gets to go, how come Morrissey didn't get an invite?
Richie
------------------------------
From: Richard Gaze
To: "'infected@cs.uchicago.edu'"
Subject: RE: diana funeral
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:54:52 +0800
Message-ID: <01BCBF7B.10BA51E0@RICHARD>
It's amazing how much crap has been sent to this list all because I made a stupid comment about Morrissey not attending Diana's funeral.
No wonder my mailer is clogged every morning with trivial crap.
Richie
------------------------------
From: "Mark Bickerdike"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: 08 Sep 97 16:35:02 +0100
Message-Id: <199709081540.QAA23471@uks447>
- --=_ORCL_15282694_0_11919709081741280
Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit
Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Might be something to do with George Michael and Di having got
together a few times to raise the odd few quid for Aids charities with
Di (don't remember her and Morrisey being big buddies)
Mark
- --=_ORCL_15282694_0_11919709081741280
Content-Type:message/rfc822
Date: 08 Sep 97 10:16:40
From:"Richard Gaze "
To:infected@cs.uchicago.edu,
Subject:diana funeral
Return-Path:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit
Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Whilst watching bits of the funeral live on telly, I watched George Michael walk in.
If he gets to go, how come Morrissey didn't get an invite?
Richie
- --=_ORCL_15282694_0_11919709081741280--
------------------------------
From: "Mark Bickerdike"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: 08 Sep 97 16:39:05 +0100
Message-Id: <199709081541.QAA23586@uks447>
- --=_ORCL_15282862_0_11919709081742390
Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit
Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Might be something to do with George Michael and Di having the
same attitude as regards using their celebrity status for some good and
getting together a few times to raise the odd few quid for Aids
charities (don't remember her and Morrisey staging many fund/awareness
raisers together)
Mark
- --=_ORCL_15282862_0_11919709081742390
Content-Type:message/rfc822
Date: 08 Sep 97 10:16:40
From:"Richard Gaze "
To:infected@cs.uchicago.edu,
Subject:diana funeral
Return-Path:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding:7bit
Content-Type:text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Whilst watching bits of the funeral live on telly, I watched George Michael walk in.
If he gets to go, how come Morrissey didn't get an invite?
Richie
- --=_ORCL_15282862_0_11919709081742390--
------------------------------
From: Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM (Adrian Stubbs)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:26:37 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970910142636.006a0ef8@sc-mail1.corpwest.baynetworks.com>
Nice one. Now that is the kinda rumour I like. I can't believe Diana would have come up with that sort of reply. You'd expect something much more shallow and insipid.
If true they are both wrong. I know a few who wouldn't have suvived their teenage years without 'The Smiths' and Morrissey in particular.
The reason Morrissey wasn't invited is because Diana's sister, and all those responsible for supplying the 'Funeral-List' had no reason to invite him. If people who said anti-royal stuff and used tasteless (in their eyes) metaphors were struck from the list then it wouldn't have needed her brother to call up the tabloid editors and tell them not to turn up at the funeral after being formally invited.
Someone makes a tongue-in-cheek comment about Morrissey not being invited and we all analyse it to death. Hey, why wasn't Matt invited.... No I don't really want to know.
At 08:01 AM 9/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
>Morrissey wasn't invited because he wrote "Margaret on the Guillotine"
>Viva Hate
>and the government whether real or pseudo (royals) are picky about
>their metaphors. There is also a rumor that Morrissey asked Diana out
>on a date shortly after her divorce and she turned him down saying "I
>won't date anyone I feel who is more unloved than me" in which
>Morrissey replied "I know I'm unlovable, you don't have to tell me".
>So Morrissey would have probably turned down any invitation to
>attend.
>
>Brian
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: WaylandM2@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:09:48 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970911160653_1694863605@emout19.mail.aol.com>
>Morrissey wasn't invited because he wrote "Margaret on the Guillotine"
>Viva Hate
>and the government whether real or pseudo (royals) are picky about
>their metaphors. There is also a rumor that Morrissey asked Diana out
>on a date shortly after her divorce and she turned him down saying "I
>won't date anyone I feel who is more unloved than me" in which
>Morrissey replied "I know I'm unlovable, you don't have to tell me".
>So Morrissey would have probably turned down any invitation to
>attend.
I found it kind of funny that Morrissey would actually use a line out of The
Smiths' song "Unlovable" in an actual situation. If that's really the case
I'm left to wonder if he's tried to contact the prince and to comfort him,
said "William, it was really nothing." Or maybe after being turned down by
the Princess he may have mumbled to himself "heaven knows I'm miserable now."
Though I think it's great if he actually does quote his songs in regular
conversation (hell, sometimes I quote them myself) I wouldn't think that he
does. Anyway, I'd imagine that this rumor is nothing more than that; a
rumor. Just my 2 cents.
<>
------------------------------
From: WaylandM2@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:22:06 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970911221723_-231603172@emout07.mail.aol.com>
>At the risk of sounding a little biting: "DUH!".
>It was a funny little pun, though. Wasn't it?
>I certainly wish it was true, it would be pretty cool.
I'm actually very glad to hear that. I was really hoping you didn't really
believe the whole thing but I was just making sure. I just thought I'd add
my own input onto the little story. I wish I had more situations where I
could use lines out of songs like that. Sometimes I do and it's interesting
to see if people catch them.
<>
------------------------------
From: WaylandM2@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:27:46 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970911221723_-231603172@emout07.mail.aol.com>
>At the risk of sounding a little biting: "DUH!".
>It was a funny little pun, though. Wasn't it?
>I certainly wish it was true, it would be pretty cool.
I'm actually very glad to hear that. I was really hoping you didn't really
believe the whole thing but I was just making sure. I just thought I'd add
my own input onto the little story. I wish I had more situations where I
could use lines out of songs like that. Sometimes I do and it's interesting
to see if people catch them.
<>
------------------------------
From: "Formerly: luster@gnn.com"
To: Richard Gaze
cc: "infected@cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:45:39 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID:
> Whilst watching bits of the funeral live on telly, I watched George Michael walk in.
>
> If he gets to go, how come Morrissey didn't get an invite?
actually, i think morrissey was behind her death. He's had some harsh
words for diana. Then there's "the queen is dead". Hey, remember the
time he was arrested for his song about Ms. Thatcher?
JaY
****************************************
"...more than you'll...ever...know."
****************************************
------------------------------
From: Marcus Forsen
To: "Formerly:" "luster@gnn.com"
Cc: The the
Subject: Ang: Re: diana funeral
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 97 01:06:33 PDT
Message-ID:
I just read this:
>actually, i think morrissey was behind her death. He's had some harsh
>words for diana. Then there's "the queen is dead". Hey, remember the
>time he was arrested for his song about Ms. Thatcher?
>JaY
I never did hear anything about Moz getting arrested, how did that
story end?
- --->marcus
stockholm is rainy
marcus.forsen@sundbyberg.mail.telia.com
------------------------------
From: Amanda Dahl/mail+schedule
To: "'infected@cs.uchicago.edu'"
Subject: RE: diana funeral
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:08:19 -0700
Message-ID:
At the risk of sounding a little biting: "DUH!".
It was a funny little pun, though. Wasn't it?
I certainly wish it was true, it would be pretty cool.
On an only-slightly related note:
I would love to see Morrissey, M.J. and Johnny Marr team up to do some
project together. Unrealistic, I know, but wouldn't it be amazing?
amanda
>-----Original Message-----
>From: WaylandM2@aol.com [SMTP:WaylandM2@aol.com]
>Sent: Thursday, September 11, 1997 1:10 PM
>To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
>Subject: Re: diana funeral
>
>>Morrissey wasn't invited because he wrote "Margaret on the Guillotine"
>>Viva Hate
>>and the government whether real or pseudo (royals) are picky about
>>their metaphors. There is also a rumor that Morrissey asked Diana out
>>on a date shortly after her divorce and she turned him down saying "I
>>won't date anyone I feel who is more unloved than me" in which
>>Morrissey replied "I know I'm unlovable, you don't have to tell me".
>>So Morrissey would have probably turned down any invitation to
>>attend.
>
>I found it kind of funny that Morrissey would actually use a line out of The
>Smiths' song "Unlovable" in an actual situation. If that's really the case
>I'm left to wonder if he's tried to contact the prince and to comfort him,
>said "William, it was really nothing." Or maybe after being turned down by
>the Princess he may have mumbled to himself "heaven knows I'm miserable now."
> Though I think it's great if he actually does quote his songs in regular
>conversation (hell, sometimes I quote them myself) I wouldn't think that he
>does. Anyway, I'd imagine that this rumor is nothing more than that; a
>rumor. Just my 2 cents.
>
><>
------------------------------
From: Genepool@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Diana funeral discussion
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 16:18:37 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970908161555_776560762@emout20.mail.aol.com>
Enough already-talk about off topic nonsense. I usualy don't complain when
things drift but this is hardly the place to continue, please stop!!
Steve
------------------------------
From: Luka383062@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Back to basics
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:33:05 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970908173141_-265774739@emout07.mail.aol.com>
Perhaps this topic has been talked to death, but being somewhat new to this
board (although I've been a the The fan for years), I would be interested to
know what other bands/artists/poets/writers the rest of you are into.
I must admit, I have found none that have touched be a deeply as Matt
Johnson, but here's hoping that someone might make a recomendation.
Artists that get me through:
XTC
Anything involving a "Finn"
Peter Murphy
------------------------------
From: "Bambang"
To: ,
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:59:25 -0700
Message-Id: <11003576519975@onaustralia.com.au>
Getting into hip-hop funky blues type thangs of late... while waiting for
hell to freeze over... such as Wyclef Jean, Soul Coughing, United
Information Organisation... and excitingly enough, dance music ala John
Digweed & Sasha. Also Cool for August interests me... go Iggy!
Bambang
> Perhaps this topic has been talked to death, but being somewhat new to
this
> board (although I've been a the The fan for years), I would be interested
to
> know what other bands/artists/poets/writers the rest of you are into.
------------------------------
From: "BERNARD TROTEBAS"
To:
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:48:15 -0700
Message-ID: <19970909025048627.AAA161@antique>
Hi,
Anyone ever heard of STEPHAN EICHER ??
He' s a Swiss guy that sings in English, French, German, Italian.
He was huge in France after left in 93.
Bernard.
- ----------
> From: Luka383062@aol.com
> To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
> Subject: Back to basics
> Date: Monday, September 08, 1997 2:33 PM
>
> Perhaps this topic has been talked to death, but being somewhat new to
this
> board (although I've been a the The fan for years), I would be interested
to
> know what other bands/artists/poets/writers the rest of you are into.
>
> I must admit, I have found none that have touched be a deeply as Matt
> Johnson, but here's hoping that someone might make a recomendation.
>
> Artists that get me through:
> XTC
> Anything involving a "Finn"
> Peter Murphy
------------------------------
From: "Bewlay"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:59:46 GMT+1
Message-ID: <2AB45E7EBA@ca30s.iu.hioslo.no>
Hi all!
I'm starting to get the shivers! If you leave out the bagatelle that
was "Hanky Panky", it's actually been 5 years since we saw the last
The The album! And I've heard about the making of his new album ever
since "Hanky Panky", so I have no idea what to expect. But kind
people on this list assure me that it's coming soon.
I'm a devoted follower of his music - I've been so ever since I
couldn't get "Mind Bomb" out of my head when it was released. It's
probably late compared to most of you, even though it HAS gone 9(1)
years since then! I thought at the time that it was a long wait until
"Dusk" finally came, never knowing he would make such a habit out of
it. But Matt has always compensated the waiting by making albums that
stay in your stereo for at least a couple of years - which is rare in
any case! That's why I'm still as devoted, after 5 years of waiting
for the next album to come!
But between waiting for new albums and enjoying the older ones, there
are other artists and bands that occupy my time. For what it's worth
- - and if you kind people are interested - here's a list of bands I
love and recommend. And I'd just like to note that DAVID BOWIE is the
artist that occupies most of my time, besides The The - mostly
because he is more frequent!
Radiohead REM
Peter Gabriel The Police
U2 Smashing Pumpkins
Tori Amos James
New Order PJ Harvey
Nick Cave Marilyn Manson
Brian Eno Soundgarden
Gavin Friday Pearl Jam
Depeche Mode The Cure
Seigmen Talking Heads
The list of course is much more comprehensive. Thanks for the
attention!
Petter Ness
------------------------------
From: Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM (Adrian Stubbs)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:28:06 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970910142806.006b1aac@sc-mail1.corpwest.baynetworks.com>
No we daren't. What are you thinking.
At 10:33 AM 9/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Joy Division is stellar in my mind. Your story evokes wild emotions.
>Absolutely fascinating. I would have loved to have been there.
>
>amanda
>
>p.s. just to echo the sentiments of the rest of the list, i must say
>that the smiths are pretty stellar as well, right up in the ranks with
>mj. dare we call it "intellect rock"?
>
------------------------------
From: Odd-Magne Kristoffersen
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:26:05 +0200
Message-ID: <3415789D.D2FA8C7E@online.no>
Please REMOVE me from the mail list
Greetings
LaPalgia
------------------------------
From: WaylandM2@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 17:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970908174647_333702433@emout14.mail.aol.com>
Artists other than The The...well, I am definitely a very big fan of XTC as
well as The Smiths and Morrissey. As a matter of fact, The The, XTC, and The
Smiths form a sort of dominating trinity in my musical tastes. Other musical
groups that I listen to seem to stem from or connect to these three in one
way or another.
------------------------------
From: Miller6509@aol.com
To: Luka383062@aol.com, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:04:13 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970910225509_759347820@emout04.mail.aol.com>
I mentioned Siousie and the Banshees earlier, but thanks for reminding me of
Peter Murphy. If he was a little more prolific, but he seems to be more of a
procrastinator than Matt Johnson. Deep and Holy Smoke are great! The
latest, Cascade, was a little weak.
------------------------------
From: Miller6509@aol.com
To: Luka383062@aol.com, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 01:16:11 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970910225509_759347820@emout04.mail.aol.com>
I mentioned Siousie and the Banshees earlier, but thanks for reminding me of
Peter Murphy. If he was a little more prolific, but he seems to be more of a
procrastinator than Matt Johnson. Deep and Holy Smoke are great! The
latest, Cascade, was a little weak.
------------------------------
From: Miller6509@aol.com
To: ikao@engin.umich.edu, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:14:50 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970910231246_927129972@emout03.mail.aol.com>
Glad to see Glenn Miller on your list. Along with The The, I am a huge GM
fan. One of the biggest in the world, which is saying something considering I
am 36 and have been into his music since I was 9!
I have a few thousand hours of Miller, mostly live recordings, not available
commercially, taken from radio broadcasts. Really rare, especially Miller in
England.
If you want to hear GM, you must hear the live recordings. I'd be happy to
lend a hand if you're interested?
The question, would Glenn and Matt get along?
------------------------------
From: Ryan E Wick
To: Luka383062@aol.com
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 11:42:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-Id:
Billy Bragg
XTC
Peter Murphy
Ani
Lloyd Cole
James
Human Drama
Smithes/Moz(seeing him in dc next week!!!!!)
Sinead O'Connor
David Rudder(calypso music)
Concrete Blonde
Dead Can Dance
really now, are good lyrics too much to ask for?????????
------------------------------
From: Irene Kao
To: Luka383062@aol.com
cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID:
good bands in my eyes (or ears actually) - and yeah, i know, this list
will be subject to criticism:
The The (of course) Massive Attack
R.E.M. Liz Phair
Sleater-Kinney Suicide Machines
Ani DiFranco (one of my favorites) Blondie
Talvin Singh Beck
Tori Amos Simon and Garfunkel
Louis Armstrong Joni Mitchell
Glen Miller Soul Coughing
Bjork Jacky Cheung
Patti Smith PJ Harvey
Luscious Jackson Erasure
New Order Enigma ....
okay, just to name a few. i'm trying to get more into jazz and swing, so
please name drop good ones to me.
irene
******************************************************************************
"No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted."
- Aesop
"...a premature commitment to any role - marriage or vocation - closes
off the experiences, the testing, the failures and successes in various
spheres of activity that are necessary for a person to achieve full
maturity, individual identity."
- Betty Friedan
"The Feminine Mystique"
******************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: kokoprod@nternet.com (Paul Farrow)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:21:18 -0500
Message-Id:
>okay, just to name a few. i'm trying to get more into jazz and swing, so
>please name drop good ones to me.
If you like the arrangements of the The and Beck, then check out jazz
artist Charles Mingus. I also like early Herbie Hancock, yeah he's the
"Rockit" guy.
------------------------------
From: "Theresa Hannigan"
To: "Amanda Dahl/mail+schedule" ,
lea@sirius.com
Cc: "Infected"
Subject: RE: Back to basics
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 04:44:02 UT
Message-Id:
On the subject of live bands. Happened to see an Excellent band a few weeks
back,"The Geraldine Fibbers". Wasn't even that familiar with them on the
onset, but left a huge fan. Their guitar player, a man by the name of Nels
Cline was AMAZING!!!
- ----------
From: Lea Curry
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 4:06 PM
To: Amanda Dahl/mail+schedule
Cc: 'Infected'
Subject: Re: Back to basics
> Joy Division is stellar in my mind. Your story evokes wild emotions.
> Absolutely fascinating. I would have loved to have been there.
>
> amanda
>
> p.s. just to echo the sentiments of the rest of the list, i must say
> that the smiths are pretty stellar as well, right up in the ranks with
> mj. dare we call it "intellect rock"?
I like the early Smiths a whole lot, but I have to say, the one time I
saw them live they were INCREDIBLY disappointing. It was a LONG time
ago, in the 80's, but they were LAME!!!!! Just LAME! The whole concert
had the quality of a sock hop, their freind who opened, was a drag
artist who lip sank to mouldy oldies and got booed off the stage , and
the Smiths were off tempo, disjointed and half hearted at a time when
most of the UK bands were brilliant.
Good bands live at the time:
Gang of Four
Throbbing Gristle (brilliant)
Stranglers
Souxie (GREAT)
U-2 (dont like them now, but their first SF concert had reporters
scrambing for the phones! They were in a small club and blew EVERYBODY
away and the were opening for Stiff Little Fingers. (blew em away)
Simple Minds
Dead Kennedys
Romeo Void
Snake Finger
Nuns
Our Daughters Wedding
Theater of hate
Scars
X
and lots more. Just about every band that played here was good and you
could see them in good, small clubs. The early 80s was very good for
music in SF and its been most dead since as any of the good bands are
now in huge venues. blah.
The only other band I can remember being as disappointed in, Live was
the Psych. Furs. I loved their first few albums, but they were just
terrible live. What a let down. Richard Butler did little hand motions
to the words, and made it look like Mr. Rogers. BAAAAD. Adam Ant was
horrid too, but Bow Wow Wow was ONLY good live.
Einsurzenze Noibahtan (spelled wrong) was pretty awesome the several
times I saw them. Anyone know what's up with them?
Lea
- --
"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
They got muscles for brains..."
- - Gang of Four
------------------------------
From: "Theresa Hannigan"
To: Luka383062@aol.com, infected@cs.uchicago.edu, SoulMinr@aol.com
Subject: RE: Back to basics
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 05:13:46 UT
Message-Id:
Also a fan of Peter Murphy...In 'Uncertain Smile" when mj sings the chorus
"........A howling wind that blows the li? as the rain flows....", always and
every time reminds me of peter murphy.
- ----------
From: Miller6509@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 11:04 PM
To: Luka383062@aol.com; infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
I mentioned Siousie and the Banshees earlier, but thanks for reminding me of
Peter Murphy. If he was a little more prolific, but he seems to be more of a
procrastinator than Matt Johnson. Deep and Holy Smoke are great! The
latest, Cascade, was a little weak.
------------------------------
From: Amanda Dahl/mail+schedule
To: "'lea@sirius.com'"
Cc: "'Infected'"
Subject: RE: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:33:03 -0700
Message-ID:
Joy Division is stellar in my mind. Your story evokes wild emotions.
Absolutely fascinating. I would have loved to have been there.
amanda
p.s. just to echo the sentiments of the rest of the list, i must say
that the smiths are pretty stellar as well, right up in the ranks with
mj. dare we call it "intellect rock"?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lea Curry [SMTP:lea@sirius.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 9:23 AM
>To: Ian
>Cc: Infected
>Subject: Re: Back to basics
>
>Ian wrote:
>>
>> > The only other band that could rival with The The is New >Order but
>> the
>> > two are so different - the only thing they have in common is that
>> > their singer teamed up with Johnny Marr to form their band
>>Electronic,
>> > which is not at all bad.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Rik
>>
>> Amen to TheThe and New Order being different. I feel embarrased for Barnie
>> when I hear the Ice Cream song (read: 90% of all New Order lyrics are about
>> dairy products).
>>
>> Ian
>>
>> P.s. The other 10% is about being drunk and eating Ice Cream. Re-listen to
>> the albums New Order fans. And decide for yourself :P
>
>
> New order never even TRIED to live up to Joy Division and in a way that
>WAS smart and they couldnt. But they didnt have to do a 180 either. I
>met them on their first trip back to SF after Curtiss died. They had
>been scheduled to Play SF a couple of days after he hung himself.
>
> One of the problems , I think is that the band had tremendous guilt
>after his death. I asked Barnie, if any of them had any idea he was
>going to do that, (tactfully of course), because it was all over his
>lyrics and the last album (CLOSER)was SO funereal- I mean there was even
>a dirge. But they said "No, they never had any IDEA that he was serious
>and he had seemed really happy, etc. But that there HAD been some
>marital stuff.
>
> So I think there was a LOT of guilt about the heavy lyrics. Maybe they
>overcompensated by being as pop as they could.
>
> I spent a couple of nights partying with them and hanging out after
>the second gig, and they were so incredibly nice. Seeing all of the
>band equipment still saying Joy Division all over it was chilling in a
>way. Joy Division was probably my favorite band of that whole era, with
>Gang of Four right behind. The The is about the only band that bridged
>the gap.
>
>Actually, WHAT gap? They stick out into the VOID!
>
>Lea
>--
>"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
>They got muscles for brains..."
>
>- Gang of Four
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Amanda Dahl/mail+schedule
CC: "'Infected'"
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:06:07 -0700
Message-ID: <3416FDAF.76E1@sirius.com>
> Joy Division is stellar in my mind. Your story evokes wild emotions.
> Absolutely fascinating. I would have loved to have been there.
>
> amanda
>
> p.s. just to echo the sentiments of the rest of the list, i must say
> that the smiths are pretty stellar as well, right up in the ranks with
> mj. dare we call it "intellect rock"?
I like the early Smiths a whole lot, but I have to say, the one time I
saw them live they were INCREDIBLY disappointing. It was a LONG time
ago, in the 80's, but they were LAME!!!!! Just LAME! The whole concert
had the quality of a sock hop, their freind who opened, was a drag
artist who lip sank to mouldy oldies and got booed off the stage , and
the Smiths were off tempo, disjointed and half hearted at a time when
most of the UK bands were brilliant.
Good bands live at the time:
Gang of Four
Throbbing Gristle (brilliant)
Stranglers
Souxie (GREAT)
U-2 (dont like them now, but their first SF concert had reporters
scrambing for the phones! They were in a small club and blew EVERYBODY
away and the were opening for Stiff Little Fingers. (blew em away)
Simple Minds
Dead Kennedys
Romeo Void
Snake Finger
Nuns
Our Daughters Wedding
Theater of hate
Scars
X
and lots more. Just about every band that played here was good and you
could see them in good, small clubs. The early 80s was very good for
music in SF and its been most dead since as any of the good bands are
now in huge venues. blah.
The only other band I can remember being as disappointed in, Live was
the Psych. Furs. I loved their first few albums, but they were just
terrible live. What a let down. Richard Butler did little hand motions
to the words, and made it look like Mr. Rogers. BAAAAD. Adam Ant was
horrid too, but Bow Wow Wow was ONLY good live.
Einsurzenze Noibahtan (spelled wrong) was pretty awesome the several
times I saw them. Anyone know what's up with them?
Lea
- --
"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
They got muscles for brains..."
- - Gang of Four
------------------------------
From: Amanda Dahl/mail+schedule
To: "'Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM'" ,
"'infected@cs.uchicago.edu'"
Subject: RE: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:18:50 -0700
Message-ID:
yes, i realize that it could be construed to be an oxymoron.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM [SMTP:Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 2:28 PM
>To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
>Subject: RE: Back to basics
>
>No we daren't. What are you thinking.
>
>At 10:33 AM 9/10/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>Joy Division is stellar in my mind. Your story evokes wild emotions.
>>Absolutely fascinating. I would have loved to have been there.
>>
>>amanda
>>
>>p.s. just to echo the sentiments of the rest of the list, i must say
>>that the smiths are pretty stellar as well, right up in the ranks with
>>mj. dare we call it "intellect rock"?
>>
------------------------------
From: Evan Williams
To: "infected@cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: Other artists
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 18:56:42 -0500
Message-ID: <01BCBC88.F37C1220@hd27-096.hil.compuserve.com>
Personally I get into Steve Earle on the music side. I realize he has =
quite a different musical style from Matt, but both delve in the darker =
emotions of the human soul. I get into Bukowski also.
- ----------
Perhaps this topic has been talked to death, but being somewhat new to =
this
board (although I've been a the The fan for years), I would be =
interested to
know what other bands/artists/poets/writers the rest of you are into.
I must admit, I have found none that have touched be a deeply as Matt
Johnson, but here's hoping that someone might make a recomendation.
Artists that get me through:=20
XTC=20
Anything involving a "Finn"
Peter Murphy
------------------------------
From: kokoprod@nternet.com (Paul Farrow)
To: "infected@cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: Re: Other artists
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 20:17:22 -0500
Message-Id:
Ever check out Matthew Sweet?
>Perhaps this topic has been talked to death, but being somewhat new to this
>board (although I've been a the The fan for years), I would be interested to
>know what other bands/artists/poets/writers the rest of you are into.
>
>I must admit, I have found none that have touched be a deeply as Matt
>Johnson, but here's hoping that someone might make a recomendation.
>
>Artists that get me through:
>XTC
>Anything involving a "Finn"
>Peter Murphy
------------------------------
From: Richard Gaze
To: "infected@cs.uchicago.edu"
Subject: Diana funeral
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:00:36 +0800
Message-ID: <01BCBCFE.D77E6070@RICHARD>
walk in.
>
>If he gets to go, how come Morrissey didn't get an invite?
>
because George Michael was a personal friend of hers and Morrisey =
wasn't.
mikeg
Bollocks
I read somewhere that Diana was well into the Smiths, and wore Smith =
T-Shirts for bed. Also, she used to go down Raiders in Preston, =
Lancashire. I once saw her there.=20
------------------------------
From: arieseci@bellatlantic.net
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu (Infected!)
Subject: Matt on Matt, and Top Shelf Musical Liquor
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:20:28 -0400
Message-Id: <199709090609.CAA21062@core.IConNet.NET>
I'm glad the subject got around to what others are listening to here
on the list, as I was planning to get around a post on just that.
But first, shall I be one to break with tradition (but hopefully not
be branded as blasphemous) in that I don't think that MJ is the best
or the one or the only. His music DOES affect me in some
significant way (as opposed to most of the generic crap playing on
commercial radio these days) and therefore MJ has opened
himself a permanent spot on my top shelf of musical liqour, the
reserve shelf for artists that I can count on to intoxicate my
musical soul through their creations. And I do think enough of him
to subscribe to a list where people share their common admiration of
him.
One thing that can really endear me to an artist, is hearing a song
that I (wish I) could have written myslelf. Well, one day a while
back I had to do a lot of work related driving and the only saving
grace was the rental car had a cassette player that worked (as
opposed to radio only in my regular ride). Anyway, I popped in this
unmarked tape I had lying around the house, and was driving into the
early morning twilight dwelling way too much on a long relationship
that had just come to pass when Kingdom of Rain hit me square in the
face. It was like looking in the mirror and seeing a perspective of a
relationship that I had lived but never quite realized or remembered
thats how it actually was - I was the song, word for word. Being
reacquainted with that composition at that particular time went a
long way to helping me put some real bitter feelings behind me.
I also found that some times (and songs) are better than others when
introducing MJ to the uninitiated. This girl and I were relaxing in
bed afterward having a puff and listening to some music and it so
happened the CD carousel stopped on Dusk. She actually got pissed
'cause the lyrics were so cynical, needless to say I quickly skipped
disk to something a bit less objectionable (XTC). Oh well, I guess
I'll know better next time, but you know I thought about it and...
I'm cynical too.
So, if you're still with me here, here's some of the other "arteests"
that hold a treasured spot in my musical/lyrical/cynical heart,
a.k.a. the top shelf musical liquor a.k.a. the CD's that are always
haphazardly stacked near the CD player for ready access. I've been
turned on to a lot of great new (to me) artists from seeing what
other people with common interests are listening to.
Sarah McLachlan
Bob Mould/Sugar/Husker Du
The Pixies
XTC
The Posies
Sting/The Police
The Church
Smiths/Morrisey
World Party/Karl Wallinger
Thomas Dolby
Magnapop
Elvis Costello
Joe Jackson
Richard Thompson
Grant Lee Buffalo
Kevin Salem
Enigma
Luna
Pet Shop Boys
Dick Dale
Cheerio, All! (for the Diana-discussion faction which I deleted
without reading)
Later,
Matt J.
NP: Mission Of Burma, "That's When I Reach For My
Revolver"
------------------------------
From: arieseci@bellatlantic.net
To: behfar@cs.uchicago.edu
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu (Infected!)
Subject: To the Grand Poobah of the Infected! List...
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 03:25:57 -0400
Message-Id: <199709090714.DAA21672@core.IConNet.NET>
Does the list server currently being used for the Infected!
list support daily digests, ala majordomo? For the unfamiliar, a
digest is all of the posts for the day, assembled and
mailed as one email (otherwise unedited).
I see the list has been increasing in volume a bit as of late.
It would be nice if we could get a daily digest version of the list
as opposed to email of each individual posting, makes for easier
sifting and reading of all the posts to the list. I'm sure
my provider has lost more than one posting, as I've seen
follow-ups to original posts that I can't find.
Also, can the list server automatically add the list name to the
Subject header (ex: Subject: INFECTED!: subject_name, also ala
majordomo).
Lastly, how many souls might this list currently be mining?
Cc'd to list because I thought others might be interested in
this also.
Thanks,
Matt
------------------------------
From: "Daniel O'Rourke"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: diana funeral, bla bla Morrissey
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 08:53:52 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID:
On Mon 08 Sep, Formerly: luster@gnn.com wrote:
>
> > Whilst watching bits of the funeral live on telly, I watched George Michael walk in.
> >
> > If he gets to go, how come Morrissey didn't get an invite?
>
> actually, i think morrissey was behind her death. He's had some harsh
> words for diana. Then there's "the queen is dead". Hey, remember the
> time he was arrested for his song about Ms. Thatcher?
> JaY.
Whats the Queen is dead got to do with an ex Princess and when was he
arrested for a song about Mrs Thatcher, what was it.
I didn't know he did a song called 'Meglomaniac old hag'
------------------------------
From: "Daniel O'Rourke"
To: Richard Gaze
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: RE: diana funeral
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 09:09:25 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID:
On Tue 09 Sep, Richard Gaze wrote:
>
> >
> > If he gets to go, how come Morrissey didn't get an invite?
> >
> >
> >
> > Richie
>
> Why would some whining old fuck get an invite to her wedding. GM like Elton
> were friends/ aquaintances of Diana, is Morrissey? Im not so sure
>
> Course he fucking is. Diana was well into the Smiths, as she was standing right in fro
> nt of me in the queue in HMV to buy 'Strangeways here we come' on the day of its relea
> se.
Hmmm strangeways here we come, if I were you Id keep of the disco juice for a while.
Raiders in Preston, indeed, I saw her wearing a Sisters T-Shirt in Rock City Nottingham
------------------------------
From: Druckmann Itai
Sender: Druckmann Itai
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Diana funeral discussion
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 10:44:49 +0000
Message-ID:
I'm with you on that, Steve.
May she rest in peace. She deserve that.
Itai.
------------------------------
From: Druckmann Itai
Sender: Druckmann Itai
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Back to basics - Cynicals
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 11:23:29 +0000
Message-ID: <997A1534010C0400@teva.co.il>
Carter USM can be cynical.
Not quite the same melody as the The's but
cynical they are. "1992 the love album" is a good
example although having a shitty name...
Itai.
"Driving a modern car is like having sex with an aerobic instructor.
What ever you do you just ain`t good enough"
(Jay Lenno explains his passion for old cars)
------------------------------
From: Ken Maclean
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Peeling the skin back from my eyes.....
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:13:59 GMT
Message-ID:
Is it possible that the recent rash of defections from the list is
related to the recent Diana debate ? I think its cool for the list to
deviate away from MJ " worship" (the recent cereal posting being a
spectacularly worthy example) especialy as the little tyke seems
to be taking less dictation from his tortured inner soul these days,
but the DI saga is such a tired set of arguements that is almost
completely inescapable everywhere else. Lets get the Royal in the
soil and the footy back on the telly.
Whilst we are on the subject of other bands worth listening to, i'd
like to put a word in for Del Amitri,Propoganda and Billy Bragg
especialy when he is singing about relations between people
"How can you lie there and think of England,
When you dont even know who's in the team."
Cheers .
Ken.
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Ken Maclean
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Peeling the skin back from my eyes.....
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 10:04:39 -0700
Message-ID: <3416D327.384B@sirius.com>
> Is it possible that the recent rash of defections from the list is
> related to the recent Diana debate ? I think its cool for the list to
> deviate away from MJ " worship" (the recent cereal posting being a
> spectacularly worthy example) especialy as the little tyke seems
> to be taking less dictation from his tortured inner soul these days,
If people sign off a list everytime a subject doesnt suit them then
they will be moving around a lot, which is fine by me.
I would suspect that the recent rash of signoffs is because the list has
picked up , period and reminded people that they are subbed. If there
is anything WORSE than a subject you are not interested in, it is a
protracted discussion of what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be discussed on a
list.
This too shall pass.....
Lea
- --
"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
They got muscles for brains..."
- - Gang of Four
------------------------------
From: RSchraag@symantec.com (Rik Schraag)
To: Luka383062@aol.com, Irene Kao
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Back to basics
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 09:24:37 -0700
Message-ID: <000E2354.3152@symantec.com>
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Hi Irene, hi guys,
This is what I call an interesting list.
If you think Matt can be a bit two-fisted and cynical, why not try a
relatively unknown new UK band called the lighthouse family - it's
like this meditative, emotional, bittersweet soul which will get you
in a very special mood.
If you think Matt could be a bit more cynical, why not try out John
Cale's seventies work, like the song "I'm not the loving kind" and his
cover of "Heartbreak Hotel" it's like he's plunging a knife in his
heart and twisting it just for the sake of it.
The only other band that could rival with The The is New Order but the
two are so different - the only thing they have in common is that
their singer teamed up with Johnny Marr to form their band Electronic,
which is not at all bad.
Cheers,
Rik
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Author: Irene Kao at Internet
Date: 08.09.97 19:59
good bands in my eyes (or ears actually) - and yeah, i know, this list
will be subject to criticism:
The The (of course) Massive Attack
R.E.M. Liz Phair
Sleater-Kinney Suicide Machines
Ani DiFranco (one of my favorites) Blondie
Talvin Singh Beck
Tori Amos Simon and Garfunkel
Louis Armstrong Joni Mitchell
Glen Miller Soul Coughing
Bjork Jacky Cheung
Patti Smith PJ Harvey
Luscious Jackson Erasure
New Order Enigma ....
okay, just to name a few. i'm trying to get more into jazz and swing, so
please name drop good ones to me.
irene
******************************************************************************
"No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted."
- Aesop
"...a premature commitment to any role - marriage or vocation - closes
off the experiences, the testing, the failures and successes in various
spheres of activity that are necessary for a person to achieve full
maturity, individual identity."
- Betty Friedan
"The Feminine Mystique"
******************************************************************************
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Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 19:59:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Irene Kao
To: Luka383062@aol.com
cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Back to basics
In-Reply-To: <970908173141_-265774739@emout07.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID:
MIME-Version: 1.0
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- --IMA.Boundary.083097378--
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Ian
CC: Infected
Subject: Re: Back to basics
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:22:35 -0700
Message-ID: <3416C94B.43EE@sirius.com>
Ian wrote:
>
> > The only other band that could rival with The The is New >Order but
> the
> > two are so different - the only thing they have in common is that
> > their singer teamed up with Johnny Marr to form their band Electronic,
> > which is not at all bad.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Rik
>
> Amen to TheThe and New Order being different. I feel embarrased for Barnie
> when I hear the Ice Cream song (read: 90% of all New Order lyrics are about
> dairy products).
>
> Ian
>
> P.s. The other 10% is about being drunk and eating Ice Cream. Re-listen to
> the albums New Order fans. And decide for yourself :P
New order never even TRIED to live up to Joy Division and in a way that
WAS smart and they couldnt. But they didnt have to do a 180 either. I
met them on their first trip back to SF after Curtiss died. They had
been scheduled to Play SF a couple of days after he hung himself.
One of the problems , I think is that the band had tremendous guilt
after his death. I asked Barnie, if any of them had any idea he was
going to do that, (tactfully of course), because it was all over his
lyrics and the last album (CLOSER)was SO funereal- I mean there was even
a dirge. But they said "No, they never had any IDEA that he was serious
and he had seemed really happy, etc. But that there HAD been some
marital stuff.
So I think there was a LOT of guilt about the heavy lyrics. Maybe they
overcompensated by being as pop as they could.
I spent a couple of nights partying with them and hanging out after
the second gig, and they were so incredibly nice. Seeing all of the
band equipment still saying Joy Division all over it was chilling in a
way. Joy Division was probably my favorite band of that whole era, with
Gang of Four right behind. The The is about the only band that bridged
the gap.
Actually, WHAT gap? They stick out into the VOID!
Lea
- --
"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
They got muscles for brains..."
- - Gang of Four
------------------------------
From: Marcus Forsen
To: The the
Subject: other artists and stuff
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 97 11:51:21 PDT
Message-ID:
First of all, it's great that this list finally has awakened.
The summer was a long siesta.
2nd, other bands.
Rather various I'd say... As I don't have English as my
first language, I think on most occacions the music hits me
first. When I hear a new band I listen to the music first.
But I would like to put it in this way, music and lyrics go
hand in hand. Of course it is not a universal truth, but you
can definitely see the relationship. As it has turned out, there
are a some artists of my liking that really put the words in the
right way and have something to say, and I listen eagerly to
their lyrics. But I want to point out that I started listening to the The
because of the music in the first place.
fave bands:
the waterboys
smiths/morrissey
suede
jesus jones
the wonderstuff
the jesus and mary chain
primal scream
the cure
pulp
nick cave
the beautiful south
st etienne
stan ridgway
sisters of mercy
and some good swedish bands...
the wannadies, cardigans, diLeva, the soundtrack of our lives,
- --->marcus
the sun shines in stockholm
------------------------------
From: "Ian"
To: "Infected"
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Back to basics
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:47:15 -0400
Message-Id: <199709100049.UAA15834@alpha.dad.adelphia.net>
> The only other band that could rival with The The is New >Order but
the
> two are so different - the only thing they have in common is that
> their singer teamed up with Johnny Marr to form their band Electronic,
> which is not at all bad.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rik
Amen to TheThe and New Order being different. I feel embarrased for Barnie
when I hear the Ice Cream song (read: 90% of all New Order lyrics are about
dairy products).
Ian
P.s. The other 10% is about being drunk and eating Ice Cream. Re-listen to
the albums New Order fans. And decide for yourself :P
------------------------------
From: kelly514@juno.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: diana funeral
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:01:01 -0700
Message-ID: <19970910.122252.12430.1.kelly514@juno.com>
Morrissey wasn't invited because he wrote "Margaret on the Guillotine"
Viva Hate
and the government whether real or pseudo (royals) are picky about
their metaphors. There is also a rumor that Morrissey asked Diana out
on a date shortly after her divorce and she turned him down saying "I
won't date anyone I feel who is more unloved than me" in which
Morrissey replied "I know I'm unlovable, you don't have to tell me".
So Morrissey would have probably turned down any invitation to
attend.
Brian
------------------------------
From: "Kayleigh Van Poolen"
To: "infected%cs.uchicago.edu" (Return requested)
Subject: Please be so kind to send instructions for getting on list.
Date: 10 Sep 1997 11:12:07 -0600
Message-Id:
<046A13416C6D72FC*/c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=amex/o=aefa/ou=HUB3/ou=IDS/s=VanPoolen/g=Kayleigh/@MHS>
I just realized that I haven't received a thing when ITai emailed me. I
thought it was strange given all the things going on. But I had my system
reloaded and they wiped my mail directory by accident. Or at least that what
they said! but i know it is a conspiracy.
TIA, thanks in advance. Euthelene the Sharkless girl, aka Kayleigh
------------------------------
From: Genepool@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Favorite Artists
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:22:50 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970910142023_515578118@emout09.mail.aol.com>
A few Favorites:
Radiohead
Meatbeat Manifesto
Stereolab
Tindersticks
My Bloody Valentine (They make Matt Johnson look productive!!)
David Sylvian
Talk Talk
Porno for Pyros/Janes
Blur
XTC
underworld
Aphex Twin
Orb
Steve
Nick Cave
------------------------------
From: Druckmann Itai
Sender: Druckmann Itai
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favorite Artists
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 22:13:38 +0000
Message-ID:
A few of my own :
James
Coc. twins
Cranes
Carter USM
Michelle shocked
Sinead
REM
Smiths
Cure
Talking Heads
Lorenna Mcknite
Charles Mingus
Bobby McFerrin
------------------------------
From: SoulMinr@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: favorite the The song?
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 23:48:15 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970910233430_1321820391@emout12.mail.aol.com>
For me, there are many, but....
Jealous of Youth really captures a lot of emotions.
"It's funny now as we grow old
we cling to the past as we cling to the air
and feel nostalgia for things that
maybe were never there"
"It was those,God!......it was those....who made us scared...and made us
old".
------------------------------
From: SoulMinr@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: favorite the The song?
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 01:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970910233430_1321820391@emout12.mail.aol.com>
For me, there are many, but....
Jealous of Youth really captures a lot of emotions.
"It's funny now as we grow old
we cling to the past as we cling to the air
and feel nostalgia for things that
maybe were never there"
"It was those,God!......it was those....who made us scared...and made us
old".
------------------------------
From: Vonn Campbell
To: "'SoulMinr@aol.com'"
Cc: "'Infected Mailing List Post/Reply'"
Subject: RE: favorite the The song?
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:06:34 -0400
Message-ID: <01BCBEE6.390F70C0@103.greenville-001.sc.dial-access.att.net>
Favorite the The song? "This is the Day" =20
I had that song queued to the line "This is the day your life will =
surely change" as my girlfriend at the time opened the refrigerator to =
find an engagement ring staring at her. Excellent timing, as she opened =
the refrigerator door, I hit the play button.
I have also requested in my memorandum that the same song be played =
directly after my funeral.
Apart from marriage and death, my favorite song would be 'Perfect'.
"I see an old man fingering his perishing flesh,
He tells himself he was a good man and did good things,
Amused and confused by life's little ironies,
He swallows his bottle of distilled damnation."
- -----Original Message-----
From: SoulMinr@aol.com [SMTP:SoulMinr@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 1997 11:48 PM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: favorite the The song?
For me, there are many, but....
Jealous of Youth really captures a lot of emotions. =20
"It's funny now as we grow old
we cling to the past as we cling to the air
and feel nostalgia for things that
maybe were never there"
"It was those,God!......it was those....who made us scared...and made us
old".
------------------------------
From: "Erin Osborne"
To:
Subject: re: favorite the The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 00:50:41 -0400
Message-ID: <19970911045246.AAA3609@default>
Jealous of Youth is a wonderful song, definitley something we can all
relate to. My other favorites are August and September (my all-time fave
song) and Perfect Smile. Few songs can make me feel so...
Erin
------------------------------
From: Vonn Campbell
To: "'Infected Mailing List Post/Reply'"
Subject: RE: favorite the The song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:33:45 -0400
Message-ID: <01BCBFBB.AE4B6EE0@51.greenville-001.sc.dial-access.att.net>
Oh yes, one of my favs too.
Ne Obliviscaris,
Vonn "Devo" ----> mailto:Vonn.Campbell@worldnet.att.net
"None so blind as those who refuse to see." ...Col. Harvey
"How can anyone know me, when I don't even know myself?" ...Matt Johnson
"A man's got to know his limitations." ...Dirty Harry
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." ...Oscar Wilde
"What we've got here is... failure to communicate." ...the Captain
"The next woman that takes me on is going to light up like
a pinball machine and payoff in silver dollars." ... Randle P. McMurphy
- -----Original Message-----
From: Paul Farrow [SMTP:kokoprod@nternet.com]
Sent: Friday, September 12, 1997 3:30 PM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: favorite the The song
>I really like Armageddon Days as Matt seems to have grasp of some reality
>and is willing to push others to do the same. He also gets off on his
>intellectual side to spew emotion into his great insight.
>
YES! thank you for remimding me of that song, I was splitting my skull
trying to remember which of his songs hit me the hardest the first time I
heard it, and that is the one.
"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today,
he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA"
------------------------------
From: Cuevas
To: "'infected@cs.uchicago.edu'"
Subject: RE: favorite the The song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:22:26 -0400
Message-ID: <01BCC10C.874BEE80@p5pms5.cmet.net>
Hello everybody:
I'm from Chile, South America, and still enjoy THE THE's music as much =
as you all. And despite the fact that I don't like MIND BOMB very much, =
BEYOND LOVE is my favourite song. It's just the horn at the beginning, =
and the way of the music going in crescendo. "Take me to a happiness =
beyond human reach" is really moving. It makes me remember of some night =
driving to SANTIAGO DE CHILE from the south, with this huge moon over =
the hills. Sorry, bit strange... anyone agree? Disagree?
From Chile, best regards.
Patricio Cuevas
Always at pcuevas@cmet.net
------------------------------
From: kelly514@juno.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: favorite the The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:00:13 -0700
Message-ID: <19970912.084238.8454.0.kelly514@juno.com>
I really like Armageddon Days as Matt seems to have grasp of some reality
and is willing to push others to do the same. He also gets off on his
intellectual side to spew emotion into his great insight.
Love is Stronger than Death is another gem as well as Lonely Planet and
Bluer Than Blue ( what a great incorporation of piano and trumpet to make
a slow song cut so deep)
Lyrically and Musically Artistic Groups
Heavy/Deep:
Furs/Love Spit Love (Definitely not for the lyrically-challenged)
Over The Rhine
Steve Taylor
Dime Store Prophets
Dead Artist Syndrome
The The
All Star United
Rose Blossom Punch
U2 (older stuff)
Blackhouse
Midnight Oil
The Call
Poor Old Lu
Adam Again
Lighter Lyrically:(yet still very good)
Vigilantes of Love
77's
HotHouse Flowers
Iona
Smiths/Morrissey
Reality Check
Cranberries
The Waiting
Music I refuse to listen to because of weak lyrics and overly
commercialized melodies in the so-called "Alternative" catagory:
REM
Nirvana
Beatles
Electronic
Pearl Jam
Soundgarden
Sheryl Crow
Oasis
Brian
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: kelly514@Juno.com
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: favorite the The song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:38:42 -0700
Message-ID: <34196202.82F@sirius.com>
> Music I refuse to listen to because of weak lyrics and overly
> commercialized melodies in the so-called "Alternative" catagory:
>
> REM
> Nirvana
> Beatles
BEATLES?????
Alternative category???
No, the Beatles music is 35 years old, and was NOT commercial at the
time.
It was THEY who were commercialized, not vice versa.
Lea
(who remebers when the Beatles sound was VERY new and original.
PS I WOULD put the Carnberries in this category though and all of the
NEW U2.
KOO KOO KAJUB.......
------------------------------
From: kokoprod@nternet.com (Paul Farrow)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: favorite the The song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:29:56 -0500
Message-Id:
>I really like Armageddon Days as Matt seems to have grasp of some reality
>and is willing to push others to do the same. He also gets off on his
>intellectual side to spew emotion into his great insight.
>
YES! thank you for remimding me of that song, I was splitting my skull
trying to remember which of his songs hit me the hardest the first time I
heard it, and that is the one.
"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today,
he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA"
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Erin Osborne
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: favorite the The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 04:14:41 -0700
Message-ID: <3417D2A1.1E62@sirius.com>
Erin Osborne wrote:
>
> Jealous of Youth is a wonderful song, definitley something we can all
> relate to. My other favorites are August and September (my all-time fave
> song) and Perfect Smile. Few songs can make me feel so...
> Erin
"Heartland", "Love is Stronger", which always reminds me of John Lennon,
(from Dusk- have a promo copy with no actual titles, But I THINK thats
it's name), Perfect Smile with the flute ending ( on a Japanese single)
was the first thing I ever heard, and I liked it so much that I borrowed
and taped it. Then I heard it with the Jules Holland Piano ending and
liked it even MORE!
I was always suprised that it didnt launch the band into greater
popularity, but maybe it was the timing on the release. You know... I
bet his music will be re-released and possibly have a second whole go
round. I think it's good enough, and that it wont date terribly.
There are some excellant re-releases of stuff from the 60's that was a
bit obscure. Look for the "Incredible String Band" stuff re released
on CD, if you can find it. They sound great now. (even without the
chemical accompaniments). Unfortunately, one of their best "Liquid
Acrobat Flys the Air" was lost, as the masters were ruined. Very sad.
If anybody ever finds the vinyl in good condition, its worth big $$ to
me. One of the good albums out on CD is: "Thousand Layers of the
Onion". (I think thats its name). Check them out.
They taped most of their stuff screamingly stoned and sat around and
played kazoos and zithers and stuff. Its funny and arcane!
Lea
"Somewhere in my mind there is a paint box
I have every colour there, it's true"
------------------------------
From: "sir vive"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: cheers
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 03:35:07 PDT
Message-ID: <19970911103507.26110.qmail@hotmail.com>
your life is a soap opera
and i'm drinking beer
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
From: "Petter Ness"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:54:36 GMT+1
Message-ID: <5DA30D500A@pc.iu.hioslo.no>
Always hard to chose a favourite, especially with The The!!
But for some time now I've kept coming back to a song from Mind Bomb,
which actually took me a long time to like anyway. But I guess it's
true what they say - that these songs last longer!
The song is "August & September", probably one of Mind Bomb's finest,
with it's great musical arrangements and delicate moving rhythm. And
the words...they include everything we've come to connect with Matt
Johnson - a mixture of love, yearning, obession and possession! Some
say his view on love is cynical, but how can this tale of a man torn
between his own feelings be cynical?
"Was our love too strong to die, or were we just too weak to kill
it..."
The song has my vote, for now!
Petter
------------------------------
From: "Ian"
To: "Infected"
Subject: Re: cheers
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:31:55 -0400
Message-Id: <199709112334.TAA26437@alpha.dad.adelphia.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: sir vive
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Date: Thursday, September 11, 1997 7:33 AM
Subject: cheers
>your life is a soap opera
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>and i'm drinking beer
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
Me
Too!
Sorry for wasting everyone's inbox space....just needed to make a statement
and bask in our heyday (@ Infected that is).
------------------------------
From: "Bambang"
To:
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:22:42 -0700
Message-Id: <06254315640952@onaustralia.com.au>
Let me flee to their own little corner of the world...
The the.
- ----------
> From: Lea Curry
> To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
> Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
> Date: Thursday, 11 September 1997 8:06am
>
> It seems really ODD. This is the first time this list has had much
> posting at all, especially about the band that is it's subject and
> people are unsubbing like FLYS. Do you think they just signed on
> because the name sounded odd and they wanted to see what a "The The
> List" was about? Odd.
>
> Lea
>
> "Oh DAMN, its just about some BAND"
------------------------------
From: Adrian_Stubbs@BayNetworks.COM (Adrian Stubbs)
To: "Daniel O'Rourke" , infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:33:14 -0700
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970911113314.00697278@sc-mail1.corpwest.baynetworks.com>
What would make the more interesting is if you told us why it was your favourite. You have the same fav as me. I always thought it was song that should have been better known, it's a tune you can't get out of your head.
It's my personal fav because the lyrics meant so much to me at the time. I'd just started my first job out of college. My friends and family just thought my life was going really well but I was probably as unhappy as I'd ever been. Miles from all my friends / job that sucked / bad social life. The only thing that kept me going was calling up college friends and memories. Pretty pathetic. This funk didn't last long but did that song ever fit my mood at the time. Loved it ever since.
- -Adrian
At 05:23 PM 9/11/97 +0100, you wrote:
>On Thu 11 Sep, Lea Curry wrote:
>> It seems really ODD. This is the first time this list has had much
>> posting at all, especially about the band that is it's subject and
>> people are unsubbing like FLYS. Do you think they just signed on
>> because the name sounded odd and they wanted to see what a "The The
>> List" was about? Odd.
>>
>> Lea
>>
>> "Oh DAMN, its just about some BAND"
>
>
>I think it's because everyone appears amazingly sychophantic along with an
>element of one upman ship ie, "I saw them in 82", or Ive got the Pink
>flashing Singaporian 12" of contraversial subject, or whatever.
>
>this thread is about the first remotely decent one that has come along.
>
>To continue it, My favourite is this is the day,
>
>Regards
>
>Dan
>
------------------------------
From: "Daniel O'Rourke"
To: Adrian Stubbs
Cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:18:31 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID:
On Thu 11 Sep, Adrian Stubbs wrote:
> What would make the more interesting is if you told us why it was your favourite. You
> have the same fav as me. I always thought it was song that should have been better k
> nown, it's a tune you can't get out of your head.
>
> It's my personal fav because the lyrics meant so much to me at the time. I'd just sta
> rted my first job out of college. My friends and family just thought my life was goin
> g really well but I was probably as unhappy as I'd ever been. Miles from all my frien
> ds / job that sucked / bad social life. The only thing that kept me going was calling
> up college friends and memories. Pretty pathetic. This funk didn't last long but di
> d that song ever fit my mood at the time. Loved it ever since.
>
> -Adrian
>
Adrian,
Oh well then, I played Soul mining quite a few times and had up until that
point not taken to it, when there I am on what I remember to be an
amazingly Sunny day and as far as I was concerned I was going nowhere with
no one in particular at no particular speed and it just seemed fitting and I
don't know I just understood what was being said, my life seemed shit yet no
one knew, didn't really want too because they didn't see a problem, where as
I did.
Now everytime the Sun shines (and I've been dumped) the song fits, I also
think the Accordian makes the song a little more rounded than others, it is
both what appears to be a sprightly little number (and) for desperate souls,
which is what I suppose I was at the time and have been many times since.
Other favourites would be Heartland, which totaly changed the direction I went.
Giant, good words good beat and there's nothing like a bit of chanting.
Beyond Love, for the obvious reasons, something I still aspire to achieving.
The sinking feeling, again soul searching life saving potential.
Cheers
Dan
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: Petter Ness
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:01:53 -0700
Message-ID: <341807E1.5A10@sirius.com>
Petter Ness wrote:
And
> the words...they include everything we've come to connect with Matt
> Johnson - a mixture of love, yearning, obession and possession! Some
> say his view on love is cynical, but how can this tale of a man torn
> between his own feelings be cynical?
>
> "Was our love too strong to die, or were we just too weak to kill
> it..."
>
> The song has my vote, for now!
>
> Petter
I think you are right. I somehow forgot about that one, but yes. Its
really really classic The The. The little piano riffs are great, the
words, everything. Yep.
Lea
- --
"Save me from the People, who would save me from myself-
They got muscles for brains..."
- - Gang of Four
------------------------------
From: Lea Curry
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:06:59 -0700
Message-ID: <34180913.1292@sirius.com>
It seems really ODD. This is the first time this list has had much
posting at all, especially about the band that is it's subject and
people are unsubbing like FLYS. Do you think they just signed on
because the name sounded odd and they wanted to see what a "The The
List" was about? Odd.
Lea
"Oh DAMN, its just about some BAND"
------------------------------
From: "Daniel O'Rourke"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:23:55 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID:
On Thu 11 Sep, Lea Curry wrote:
> It seems really ODD. This is the first time this list has had much
> posting at all, especially about the band that is it's subject and
> people are unsubbing like FLYS. Do you think they just signed on
> because the name sounded odd and they wanted to see what a "The The
> List" was about? Odd.
>
> Lea
>
> "Oh DAMN, its just about some BAND"
I think it's because everyone appears amazingly sychophantic along with an
element of one upman ship ie, "I saw them in 82", or Ive got the Pink
flashing Singaporian 12" of contraversial subject, or whatever.
this thread is about the first remotely decent one that has come along.
To continue it, My favourite is this is the day,
Regards
Dan
------------------------------
From: Simone
To: Lea Curry
cc: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 11:42:09 -0500 (CDT)
Message-ID:
Hi...I'm prolly a new-comer to being a The The fanatic. Got into them
shortly after they put out DUSK. I saw them play with Depeche Mode in
'93. Loved the show. Absolutely fell in love with the music. I went to
the concert to see DM but The The tore them apart!! I should say, I'm a
bigger fan of The The than DM. (And I've been a fan of DM for many many
years)
And...in '95 got my boyfriend then (now husband) into them. He hadn't
heard of them until I made him listen to DUSK. He fell in love with
them.. finally got most of the cds.. except for the rare ones.
Lea I love your posts. At first, (no offense) I thought you were being a
bit bitchy. But as I continued to read what you had to say, I was
impressed.. and it really wasn't bitch.. just real.
I hope this ends my lurking...
Simone
------------------------------
From: MTMNSAS@aol.com
To: bambang@innocent.com, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:08:47 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970912030846_1161621242@emout19.mail.aol.com>
A favorite song by the The would be a tough call. A couple of great the
The songs which have not been mentioned are "The Mercy Beat" from Infected
and "Sodium Light Baby" from Dusk. Especially the live version of "The Mercy
Beat" from the 1990 world tour. Johnny Marr adds quite a bit to the strings
in that rendition.
Like all of you, I eagerly await the new morsel from Matt....
------- MTM
------------------------------
From: Psbthethe@aol.com
To: lea@sirius.com, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Re: Favourite The The song
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:06:50 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970913120648_-532815692@emout06.mail.aol.com>
uncertain smile 12" version is my fav song.
brilliant
chris
------------------------------
From: gdavis@nsi.edu (Glen A. Davis)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re:Peter Murphy
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <199709111714.KAA15496@amethea.nsi.edu>
I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I heard on the radio after Peter
Murphy's last album came out, that'd be it. The DJ said he and his wife and
kids moved to Hungary and he was officially retired. Sort of Cat Stevens
kind of thing.
Anybody heard differently? At any rate, that'd explain his procrastination.
>I mentioned Siousie and the Banshees earlier, but thanks for reminding me of
>Peter Murphy. If he was a little more prolific, but he seems to be more of a
>procrastinator than Matt Johnson. Deep and Holy Smoke are great! The
>latest, Cascade, was a little weak.
>
>
Glen Davis
NSI
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
From: Ralph Deiterding
To: "Glen A. Davis"
CC: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Peter Murphy
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 14:07:59 +0000
Message-ID: <3417FB3F.2DA9@mks.com>
Glen A. Davis wrote:
>
> I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I heard on the radio after Peter
> Murphy's last album came out, that'd be it. The DJ said he and his wife and
> kids moved to Hungary and he was officially retired. Sort of Cat Stevens
> kind of thing.
> Anybody heard differently? At any rate, that'd explain his procrastination.
Well, it's Turkey that he moved to with his family and from the Peter
Murphy mailing list I've heard that Peter will come out with more
material, the question is really when.
>
> >I mentioned Siousie and the Banshees earlier, but thanks for reminding me of
> >Peter Murphy. If he was a little more prolific, but he seems to be more of a
> >procrastinator than Matt Johnson.
Is it possible to be more of a procrastinator than Matt? I think Peter
is ahead of Matt in terms of albums put out. (Especially if you exclude
the Hanky Panky cover album.)
Deep and Holy Smoke are great! The
> >latest, Cascade, was a little weak.
I also have to strongly disagree that Cascade is 'a little weak' I think
it's one of his best. I guess I personally connected very well with
that album.
What about Love Hysteria? I think that's his best album!!
Ralph
------------------------------
From: Genepool@aol.com
To: gdavis@nsi.edu, infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Peter Murphy
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 16:26:45 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970911162310_860145515@emout16.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-09-11 13:15:44 EDT, gdavis@nsi.edu writes:
<< I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I heard on the radio after Peter
Murphy's last album came out, that'd be it. The DJ said he and his wife and
kids moved to Hungary >>
I have heard otherwise. He actually lives in Turkey (and has for a while).
The material he is working on now supposedly includes some input from his
friends in Love and Rockets as well. I hope this album is a little better
than his last.
Favorite the The song: This is the day.
(Almost too hard to pick though.)
Steve
------------------------------
From: Amanda Dahl/mail+schedule
To: "'gdavis@nsi.edu'" ,
"'infected@cs.uchicago.edu'"
Subject: RE: Peter Murphy
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 10:56:04 -0700
Message-ID:
Well, I haven't heard a thing, but I am alarmed!
And why on earth would he choose Hungary?
amanda
>-----Original Message-----
>From: gdavis@nsi.edu [SMTP:gdavis@nsi.edu]
>Sent: Thursday, September 11, 1997 10:15 AM
>To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
>Subject: Re:Peter Murphy
>
>I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I heard on the radio after Peter
>Murphy's last album came out, that'd be it. The DJ said he and his wife and
>kids moved to Hungary and he was officially retired. Sort of Cat Stevens
>kind of thing.
>Anybody heard differently? At any rate, that'd explain his procrastination.
>
>>I mentioned Siousie and the Banshees earlier, but thanks for reminding me of
>>Peter Murphy. If he was a little more prolific, but he seems to be more of
>>a
>>procrastinator than Matt Johnson. Deep and Holy Smoke are great! The
>>latest, Cascade, was a little weak.
>>
>>
>
>
> Glen Davis
> NSI
> San Diego, CA
>
------------------------------
From: "Ian"
To: "Infected"
Subject: Pete vs. Hanky
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:44:47 -0400
Message-Id: <199709112346.TAA26391@alpha.dad.adelphia.net>
Somebody wrote:
>> >Peter Murphy. If he was a little more prolific, but he seems to be
more of a
>> >procrastinator than Matt Johnson.
If I may breath a theThe-ism into this Peter Murphy dialogue. Peter decide
to allow his "session" musicians/band to co-write a few songs from Holy
Smoke forward. I personally feel this detracted from the quality of the
songwriting. My best example would be Hit Song from Holy Smoke. I was
wondering how you all would feel about Matt letting current "doods that play
music with him" help/co-write the upcoming material. It worked well with
Marr... but I've read that Matt likes being the boss (period). I inquire
thusly, as I expect he hasn't got an album worth of visionary material yet.
Any thoughts?
Ian
------------------------------
From: "Ian"
To: "Infected"
Subject: Re: Un-subs
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:50:42 -0400
Message-Id: <199709112352.TAA26444@alpha.dad.adelphia.net>
Lea wrote:
>It seems really ODD. This is the first time this list has had much
>posting at all, especially about the band that is it's subject and
>people are unsubbing like FLYS. Do you think they just signed on
>because the name sounded odd and they wanted to see what a "The The
>List" was about? Odd.
>
>Lea
>
> "Oh DAMN, its just about some BAND"
Perhaps they were mis-directed by the link I sent to Yahoo describing this
list as: "Infected: An intelligent sanctuary for recovering Jazz-ercise
addicts"
Ian
------------------------------
From: "sir vive"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: re: waiting
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 03:17:34 PDT
Message-ID: <19970912101735.3516.qmail@hotmail.com>
bambang says:
"Like all of you, I eagerly await the new morsel from Matt...."
good choice of music too, allow me to throw in three the the thongs i
can't go past:
flesh & bones (i'm still wondering if i had to choose one song, i know
impossible, but if it had to be just one, it might be this unrivaled
classic)
soul mining (can't believe he was 19 y old, what wisdom, what love, what
a freak)
and true happiness (as he said simplicity is strength)
just a meaningless opinion
vive
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
From: "Daniel O'Rourke"
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Ok then Fav' Lines
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:57:08 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID:
Ok im getting into this now, so favourite Lines then??
Im going to go for;
Monday Morning I looked the mirror in the eyes,
I think Id kill myself If i ever went blind.
------------------------------
From: Vonn Campbell
To: "'Infected Mailing List Post/Reply'"
Subject: RE: Ok then Fav' Lines
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 20:38:56 -0400
Message-ID: <01BCBFBB.E519E3C0@51.greenville-001.sc.dial-access.att.net>
How about :
"God will remind us of what we already know,
That the human race is about to reap what its sown."
"How can anyone know me,
When I don't even know myself."
"I see an old man fingering his perishing flesh,
He tells himself he was a good man and did good things.
Amused and confused by life's little ironies,
He swallows his bottle of distilled damnation."
And something of the sort :
"I look in the mirror, and it is not myself I see,
but merely who I am trying to be."
Vonn "Devo"
- -----Original Message-----
From: Daniel O'Rourke [SMTP:drourke@acorn.com]
Sent: Friday, September 12, 1997 9:57 AM
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Ok then Fav' Lines
Ok im getting into this now, so favourite Lines then??
Im going to go for;
Monday Morning I looked the mirror in the eyes,
I think Id kill myself If i ever went blind.
------------------------------
From: kelly514@juno.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Ok then Fav' Lines
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 13:34:14 -0700
Message-ID: <19970914.133429.12110.2.kelly514@juno.com>
Without mention:
"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today,
he'd be gunned down cold by the CIA"
And of course:
How many whores have walked through that door
Lain by my side and climbed in my mind
and taken me down to where the heat
blisters the skin upon my feet
makes me reach out and weep for the days when
I was pure of heart and slept in peace
( made even better with the change in his voice )
Brian
------------------------------
From: Espen Hundtofte Norderud
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Fav' Lines & Songs
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:04:20 +0200
Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970916110420.007b6c90@ulrik.uio.no>
At 14:57 12.09.97 +0100, you wrote:
>Ok im getting into this now, so favourite Lines then??
>
There sure is a lot to choose from, but I think these must be some of the
greatest:
"You gotta work out your own salvation
with no explanation
to this earth we fall
on our hands and knees we crawl.
And we look up to the stars=20
And we reach out and pray
to a deaf, dumb and blind god who never explains..."
I know, it's a bit too long to be a "line", but it can't be broken up...
_______________________________________
Yet, "Slow emotion replay" is not at all my favourite the The song. I think
that would have to be "Love is stronger than death", with a lot of
competition from "Beyond love"and "Lung Shadows", those three being some of
my all-time favourites. I can't describe how these songs make me feel...
What works of true art and genious!
_______________________________________
Other stuff to which I gladly lend an ear or two (though not all of these
put as much work into the lyrics as Mr. Johnson):
Pink Floyd
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Ozric Tentacles
Rage Against the Machine
Nick Cave
Leftfield
And if you're looking for more excellent lyrical music/musical lyrics, try:
Einst=FCrzende Neubauten (featuring Blixa Bargeld of Nick Cave's the Bad=
Seeds)
Tom Waits
and, in fact:
Faithless.
________________________________________________
By theThe way: IS there a the The chat-line anywhere out there?
Espen.
------------------------------
From: kokoprod@nternet.com (Paul Farrow)
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Ok then Fav' Lines
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:29:46 -0500
Message-Id:
>Ok im getting into this now, so favourite Lines then??
>
>Im going to go for;
>
>Monday Morning I looked the mirror in the eyes,
>I think Id kill myself If i ever went blind.
Didn't Matt actually go blind once? I wonder if it was before or after he
wrote these lyrics.
------------------------------
From: JWH
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Song
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:28:36 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID:
Well, I have to depart from Conventional Wisdon once again and offer up
"Lung Shadows" as my favorite the The song. I know what the masses will
say: "ow can your favorite song only have four lines in it, and hard ones
to hear at that!?!" Well, what can I say, when I listen to the song at
night, with no lights visible and I close my eyes, I leave the real world.
I have never encountered such soul searching music anywhere and I doubt
that I ever will. It's hard to say that it's may favorite though,
"Helpline Operator" and "Sodium Light Baby" are close behind. My fav.
album is Hanky Panky, but those three songs all next to each oother on one
disk should be illegal. "Lung Shadows" does something to me on the
inside, that no other person will ever know about, and any song that can
touch me so personally, must be my favorite.
As for other bands I listen to on occasion:
Tori Amos, Peter Gabriel, Enya, Depeche Mode, G. Love & Special Sauce,
R>E>M>, TMBG, NIN, U2, (old) Pearl Jam, and anything from the eighties
from Pet Shop Boys to ABBA. Just a thought though, and not in any
particular order at all...
- -JWH
------------------------------
From: Luka383062@aol.com
To: infected@cs.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Good writing
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:45:43 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <970912194125_1041239730@emout04.mail.aol.com>
Thanks to all who have responded to my post regarding other bands/artists. It
looks as if I will be searching for some CD's this weekend!
Does anyone have any recommended writers or poets.
Chris
Speaking of favorite Matt Johnson words--
"Why is it, that anything on this Earth we do not understand,
We are pushed down on our knees to worship or to damn"
------------------------------
From: Vonn Campbell
To: "'JWH'"